slothfacekilla Posted October 30 Author Share Posted October 30 5 minutes ago, buddha said: positioning and strength matter in defense too, but getting petry to add to maata, chairot, and holl does not inspire confidence that the pro scouting department knows what its doing, or that yzerman has a vision for how the team should play. fast? dump and chase with size? strength? i'm not sure what the vision is other than "wait for my draft picks to develop and in the meantime i will acquire veterans who play sound hockey but have marginal skill (copp, compher, maata, petry) to bridge the gap." maybe i just answered my own question? I would say you definitely answered your own question there lol. The first two seasons under Yzerman they won 17 and 19 games. Hronek was our leading defender in ice time both seasons and then it was Nemeth and Marc Staal in second place each season. A 35 year old Filppula was our 2C and then it was Namestnikov the next season. My thought is they wanted to try to field at least semi-competitive team so that when prospects are integrated it isn't a total losing culture. Plus I think the chances of Larkin re-signing go down without these incremental improvements in the team's success. Now I'll go back into hiding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 (edited) Yzerman also inherited an organization that had a prospect pool ranked in the top 10 by multiple sources when he took over. Now, the Wings' turned out not to be a strong prospect pool after all, but almost as much uncertainty and need for hope with the current crop as there was back then. High hopes for Edvinsson and Danielson, decent hope for Kasper, and then a bunch of mid-1st rounders or below which is cool and all but which many teams have. Edited October 30 by lordstanley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 Trading Maata shows the Yzerplan has failed. His version of the Verlander trade. We got robbed. It's over. The Wings need to fire Yzerman and convince the Lions to fire Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 2 hours ago, slothfacekilla said: I would say you definitely answered your own question there lol. The first two seasons under Yzerman they won 17 and 19 games. Hronek was our leading defender in ice time both seasons and then it was Nemeth and Marc Staal in second place each season. A 35 year old Filppula was our 2C and then it was Namestnikov the next season. My thought is they wanted to try to field at least semi-competitive team so that when prospects are integrated it isn't a total losing culture. Plus I think the chances of Larkin re-signing go down without these incremental improvements in the team's success. Now I'll go back into hiding! all true too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 you deal oli maata and it all falls apart! lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 2 hours ago, lordstanley said: Yzerman also inherited an organization that had a prospect pool ranked in the top 10 by multiple sources when he took over. Now, the Wings' turned out not to be a strong prospect pool after all, but almost as much uncertainty and need for hope with the current crop as there was back then. High hopes for Edvinsson and Danielson, decent hope for Kasper, and then a bunch of mid-1st rounders or below which is cool and all but which many teams have. in hindsight, do you deal Larkin in the beginning and totally tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 (edited) 32 minutes ago, buddha said: in hindsight, do you deal Larkin in the beginning and totally tank? Good question. Yzerman inherited 4 players under 25 with more than 45 points and got rid of three of them via trade or free agency, so that was probably enough. It was already a pretty thorough gutting. By trading AA they got Vrana, a 1st and four 2nds. I guess they needed to show at least one warm body with talent up front. Another question is whether in the summer of 2023 or summer of 2024, you trade some of the younger NHLers or prospects in exchange for proven NHL talent cuts above the Comphers, Sprongs, Chiarots, Holls, etc. of the world. I would have been open to trading anyone in the organization for the right price apart from Seider and Raymond. And yes that includes Larkin, Kaspar, Cossa, Augustine and/or Danielson. You wouldn't have made much of a splash from dealing only the likes of Veleno or Berggren. Edited October 31 by lordstanley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: Trading Maata shows the Yzerplan has failed. His version of the Verlander trade. We got robbed. It's over. The Wings need to fire Yzerman and convince the Lions to fire Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn. Don't worry, the Wings' playoff chances will be 0.2% by Christmas but will call up some dudes from Grand Rapids and pluck a couple off of the waiver wire and go on an improbable run to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 Darkness with Harkness? Yzerman..."hold my beer" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 A couple of goals by the Wings closes it to 3-2 after 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 (edited) I’m 10 seconds late getting back to the tv for the start of the 3rd period and it is enough to miss a Jets 4-2 goal. Didn’t even seem like a real play. The Jets player waved at the puck with one hand. https://x.com/ryanhanawwp/status/1851800411956457744?s=61&t=don8lQTnTq5FKXq14p2GMw Edited October 31 by lordstanley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 That goal 10 seconds in was predictably deflating, and then a softie by Lyon and another goal and it is 6-2 Winnipeg. 10 games in, what do we think - will the Wings get the 74 pts they did in 2019 before Yzerman was hired after the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 The Yzerplan is looking more like the Avilaplan at this point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 5 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said: The Yzerplan is looking more like the Avilaplan at this point Yzerman has a few things going for him. a) his name is Steve Yzerman b) the city is obsessed with the Lions’ drive for a Super Bowl which people care about 100x more than the Wings; c) Illitch’s other team took the city on a fun ride; and d) even an Original Six market is a lot more chill than a Canadian market when it comes to hockey. Therefore only diehard hockey fans who are also too young to remember 1995-2008 are keen on putting much pressure on him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 6 minutes ago, lordstanley said: Yzerman has a few things going for him. a) his name is Steve Yzerman b) the city is obsessed with the Lions’ drive for a Super Bowl which people care about 100x more than the Wings; c) Illitch’s other team took the city on a fun ride; and d) even an Original Six market is a lot more chill than a Canadian market when it comes to hockey. Therefore only diehard hockey fans who are also too young to remember 1995-2008 are keen on putting much pressure on him Good points. But man, what a disappointment this has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 36 minutes ago, lordstanley said: That goal 10 seconds in was predictably deflating, and then a softie by Lyon and another goal and it is 6-2 Winnipeg. 10 games in, what do we think - will the Wings get the 74 pts they did in 2019 before Yzerman was hired after the season? what would you have done? who would you have traded for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motownblues Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 When do we start questioning lalonde? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 We have a long way to go this season and the team can certainly rally, but there is no indication of a spark here. So how much longer should he be given? That's the drag when you hire a beloved superstar to come back and run the team - you may have to fire him, but if it's not working then the name of the GM shouldn't make a difference after a certain amount of time. HALF THE TEAMS MAKE THE PLAYOFFS in hockey and the Wings haven't been one of them in nearly a decade now. That's not all on Yzerman, but we're getting to a point where he needs to show something. No more of this "almost" or "just wait, we're getting there". I can't imagine Lalonde's job is all that secure at this point. Someone needs to light a fire under their arse. Is Gerry Gallant available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: there is no indication of a spark here. Bingo. That is exactly the thing. This team can certainly get physical if they want to, but there it still no mental energy in their play - spark is a good word. When you watch great athletes you see when they know they can put their opponent on the ropes and take the game to them, and you don't see the Wings generate that fire on any kind of regular basis. At least a couple of years ago you'd see the Larkin/Bertuzzi/?? line just get in a grove and show up the other team. Now when Larkin is out there half the time his line can't even get possession to start anything. Damn depressing to watch. Edited October 31 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 12 hours ago, buddha said: what would you have done? who would you have traded for? There is no Lord Stanleyplan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 That effort...not so much the outcome as the effort...is the type of thing that gets a coach fired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 The roster seems short of players that are abrasive to play against. It also seems short of guys who are abrasive to play with. Coaching matters but there have been too many games the past few seasons where the team just seems to lose its composure. It is one thing if coaches call guys out but it is another if your teammates do. They don’t seem to have that kind of leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 1 hour ago, Jason_R said: The roster seems short of players that are abrasive to play against. It also seems short of guys who are abrasive to play with. Coaching matters but there have been too many games the past few seasons where the team just seems to lose its composure. It is one thing if coaches call guys out but it is another if your teammates do. They don’t seem to have that kind of leadership. That ... and talent. Which is why I'm not optimistic a new coach would make much of a difference, although probably worth a try if they don't turn it around in the next couple of weeks. I think the Wings only have 5 above average players on the roster at this point - Larkin, Raymond, Seider, DeBrincat and Kane. Only 5 home grown players of any value at all on the roster - Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson and Kasper. Only 2 proven hits by Yzerman - Seider and Raymond, both of whom were top 6 picks overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 There is one quick things that might make Red Wings fans a little happier. Retire #91. This pettiness has gone on long enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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