Red Wings 2024 October Game Thread

[buddha]

at the end of the day, the wings just dont have enough talent.

 

[gehringer_2]

and no cap room either

4 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

 don’t see an obvious source of improvement. 

no money to spend either. How do you end up with no cap room and a mediocre team?

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and no cap room either

no money to spend either. How do you end up with no cap room and a mediocre team?

they have lots of cap room next year.

[buddha]

even with the cap room, i'm not sure where the upgrades are going to come from other than from within.

you gonna bust the bank for mitch marner?  mikko ratanen?  brock boeser?

and i dont think they have enough to sign them unless they get creative with copp's contract and give up a pick to trade holl.

[buddha]

spotrac shows them with $19m available next year.

they lose kane, fischer, husso, maata, petry, breggren, yamamoto payment (they are still on the books for abdelkader at $1m, thanks kenny!).

you figure (and maybe you dont knowing this mgmt group) danielson and mazur make it next year.  two cheap forwards.  bregren is a rfa and doesnt look like he will cost much to bring back if they want.

then you have two defensemen to replace.  do you keep johannson?  buium?  that's two cheap defense contracts.

that would leave them with about $15 million to play with.  do you splash $11-12 million for 8 years for mitch marner?

[buddha]

two more years of andrew copp at $5.625m is just brutal.

 

[lordstanley]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

and no cap room either

no money to spend either. How do you end up with no cap room and a mediocre team?

And 7th oldest roster in the NHL

[lordstanley]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

that would leave them with about $15 million to play with.  do you splash $11-12 million for 8 years for mitch marner?

I’d strongly consider it. The Wings need a star. He’d be the best player on the team. 

[lordstanley]

[buddha]

2 hours ago, lordstanley said:

I’d strongly consider it. The Wings need a star. He’d be the best player on the team. 

there is no other way to get one than to overpay.

[lordstanley]

Probably only a few times per decade does the NFL team and the NHL team of the same city combine for so much scoring on the same day as Detroit had on Sunday. A grand total of 54 between the Lions and the Wings. 🤪

[Dan Gilmore]

So, can Gibbs, Branch, Joseph or LaPorta scate?

[buddha]

Detroit trades maata to utah for a third round pick?

now?

why?

not that maata was any good, but the timing seems....interesting?  

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, buddha said:

Detroit trades maata to utah for a third round pick?

now?

why?

not that maata was any good, but the timing seems....interesting?  

3,000,000 reasons?

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

3,000,000 reasons?

finding anyone to give anything for maata is good.  its the rangers' 3rd rounder so its basically a 4th.

that said, its money off the books and gives us a chance to 1) keep kasper up when motte comes back; 2) clear room to potentially add kane's bonus to this year's cap which will create more cap room next year; 3) give johannson more time in the big leagues.

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, buddha said:

finding anyone to give anything for maata is good.  its the rangers' 3rd rounder so its basically a 4th.

that said, its money off the books and gives us a chance to 1) keep kasper up when motte comes back; 2) clear room to potentially add kane's bonus to this year's cap which will create more cap room next year; 3) give johannson more time in the big leagues.

Sometimes I think the only reason they keep 7 rounds in the NHL draft is so they have worthless picks to shuttle around for worthless players - otherwise it would end up like the NBA where teams have to trade 2nds years into the future. 

[Shinzaki]

The trade gives them cap and roster flexibility...defense needs to get younger and cheaper

[Hongbit]

Great deal.  This is how Maataa’s career has gone.  He’s useful in short spurts and has about a one and a half season shelf life before he falls off badly and needs a change of scenery.  

[slothfacekilla]

Maataa was pretty solid overall despite having stretches where I thought he played pretty badly (Lalonde's system?).  Getting a third for him is more than I expected and gives us some cap flexibility, solves the problem of having 8 defensemen in the NHL, and allows Kasper to stay up.

[lordstanley]

The trade is fine in isolation. But yet again shows Yzerman has sputtered building any type of defense & goal corps. Has now in past 18 months shipped out Hronek, Gostisbehere, Walman, Maata. Apart from his two 1st round picks of Seider (a blue chip) and Edvinsson (potential, but jury's out with only 34 NHL games under belt), he's stuck with Chiarot (33 years old), Gustaffson (32), Petry (37), Holl (32). Two under-30 goalies in Nedeljkovic and Husso didn't pan out so now relying on 32-year old Lyon and 37-year old Talbot until Cossa and/or Augustine hopefully makes it - jury is still out.

Just looking at defense and goal, ignoring forwards for the moment, 75% of the GMs in the league could have done as much as Yzerman has in 5 1/2 years. 

[buddha]

54 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

The trade is fine in isolation. But yet again shows Yzerman has sputtered building any type of defense & goal corps. Has now in past 18 months shipped out Hronek, Gostisbehere, Walman, Maata. Apart from his two 1st round picks of Seider (a blue chip) and Edvinsson (potential, but jury's out with only 34 NHL games under belt), he's stuck with Chiarot (33 years old), Gustaffson (32), Petry (37), Holl (32). Two under-30 goalies in Nedeljkovic and Husso didn't pan out so now relying on 32-year old Lyon and 37-year old Talbot until Cossa and/or Augustine hopefully makes it - jury is still out.

Just looking at defense and goal, ignoring forwards for the moment, 75% of the GMs in the league could have done as much as Yzerman has in 5 1/2 years. 

legitimate criticism.

[Shinzaki]

I do not like how the defense has been constructed....too old and slow.  Would have preferred this trade over the summer and used the $$$ to sign Ghost and not sign Gustafsson at all. Ghost is 31...but he really drove the PP last year

 

Watson has been called up on an emergency basis

Edited October 30, 2024 by Shinzaki

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I do not like how the defense has been constructed....too old and slow.  Would have preferred this trade over the summer and used the $$$ to sign Ghost and not sign Gustafsson at all. Ghost is 31...but he really drove the PP last year

 

Watson has been called up on an emergency basis

maybe he's too blinded by the wings' previous success with human pylon larry murphy?  🙂

[buddha]

positioning and strength matter in defense too, but getting petry to add to maata, chairot, and holl does not inspire confidence that the pro scouting department knows what its doing, or that yzerman has a vision for how the team should play.

fast?  dump and chase with size?  strength?

i'm not sure what the vision is other than "wait for my draft picks to develop and in the meantime i will acquire veterans who play sound hockey but have marginal skill (copp, compher, maata, petry) to bridge the gap."

maybe i just answered my own question?

[lordstanley]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I do not like how the defense has been constructed....too old and slow.  Would have preferred this trade over the summer and used the $$$ to sign Ghost and not sign Gustafsson at all. Ghost is 31...but he really drove the PP last year

 

Watson has been called up on an emergency basis

Agreed. 

Jake Walman  1G 7A 8Pts, 28 years old, $3.4mm/yr through 2026

Shayne Gostisbehere 4G 3A 7Pts, 31 years, $3.2mm/yr through 2027

I know Walman and Gostisbehere are both flawed players. Ghost's defense and Walman's apparent "issues, whether character or otherwise. But they both bring something to the table. And under $3.5mm each, neither too long of term, is pretty cheap for contributing defensemen like that. You're not going to get top pairing d-men at that price.

Instead the Wings have Chiarot at $4.75mm/yr through 2026, Gustaffson at $2mm/yr through 2026, and Holl at $3.4mm/yr through 2026. 

This is how Yzerman was quoted in July 2022 upon signing Chiarot.

https://www.nhl.com/news/ben-chiarot-signs-four-year-contract-with-detroit-red-wings-334796422

"With several expiring contracts we had roster spots open, available, needs to be addressed and we felt we addressed positionally some needs," general manager Steve Yzerman said Thursday. "We needed simply to add players to fill out a roster, but addressed some needs, an important need at center with Andrew Copp, a right-hand shot forward in David Perron and kind of a pleasant surprise in what we consider a scoring winger in Dominik Kubalik, adding some defensemen we think we will help us on our special teams, in particular our penalty killing, and defensively 5-on-5 as well. These are all areas we talked about in the spring, areas we needed to improve upon. With some of our contracts expiring and holes in our roster, we were in a position to bring in new faces and players we think address some of these needs."

So much mid. Money was burning a hole in his pocket. Is it that much different to Holland signing Nielsen, Vanek, and Helm in 2016 after Datsyuk walked? At least Yzerman was able to move on from Perron and Kubalik.