Trading For a Defensive End/Edge Rusher

[KL2]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

It would not make sense for your core to include $50 million in payroll on two defensive ends. That is more than all but GB and CIN spend on their entire DL. It would only make sense if Crosby demanded a trade to DET and was willing to play out his existing contract with no extension, or signed an extension knowing that he would be traded as soon as Detroit signs Hutch to his second deal. 

why? the cap basically doesnt exist anymore

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

It would not make sense for your core to include $50 million in payroll on two defensive ends. That is more than all but GB and CIN spend on their entire DL. It would only make sense if Crosby demanded a trade to DET and was willing to play out his existing contract with no extension, or signed an extension knowing that he would be traded as soon as Detroit signs Hutch to his second deal. 

The cap will continue to rise every year.  Those numbers will still be high but won’t be so extreme by 2026 and beyond.  

[Hongbit]

 

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, Hongbit said:

With the core group of this roster under longterm deals, maybe it does make sense to start trading off future high draft picks for pieces that can get them to the top.   The Rams had huge success with this plan while Brad was with them and they were contending for titles.  The Lions are in a much better position than they were at the same stage regarding key players locked up for many years.  

Trade the 1sts and 2nds and start using later round picks to add depth and of course hit big on some future studs like they’ve always been able to do.   Let free agency be an area where they let players go and turn them into future 3rd and 4th round compensatory picks instead of trying to sign big name FA that they won’t be able to afford.   

I guess what I’m saying is maybe it does make more sense to give up two future ones for Maxx Crosby and resign him as part of the core.    

This. AA++. Holmes built a core of this team that will be around for several years. We need an edge rusher more than we need future draft picks. Find out what we could offer the Raiders that they wouldn't turn down. 2 first round picks and a 2nd rounder? We'll survive and it may put us over the top. Or....hang onto the picks and draft more depth for our offensive line. It's just about the only part of the team that needs attention in the next couple of seasons. Free agents would fill that need, make the move and get Crosby in here, would he probably need a couple of weeks to learn our defense?

[RatkoVarda]

Raiders next 3 are @Rams; host KC; @Bengals - good chance they are 2-7 just before the deadline

pressure is going to build on Raiders, Maxx, and Holmes over next 3 weeks

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

The cap will continue to rise every year.  Those numbers will still be high but won’t be so extreme by 2026 and beyond.  

Oh right, the cap will rise but the player salaries won’t. That’s not how it works. Cap rises, salaries rise.

If the market for an edge rusher is 25 million a year or 27 million a year or 30 million a year, Crosby and Hutchinson are both going to be at the very top of that market. I don’t see how a team can invest more in its two edge rushers than all other teams invest in their entire defensive line.

That said, Crosby is making noise about wanting to contend. It seems like he is trying to follow Adams out of Vegas. I stick by my belief that the only way a move for Crosby works is if he comes here with the knowledge that Hutch is the franchise player and Crosby is the hired gun who will have to go when Hutch gets paid.

It is getting a little easier to imagine a trade for Crosby happening, but there is still a long way between here and there. 

[holygoat]

Crosby is under contract for two seasons after this one, so his salary is not going to go up in that period of time. Hutch isn't due for a contract until 2026, Alim is set through 2028 and Reader is here through next season. With Crosby, the Lions would have arguably the best D-line at least through 2025, and possibly through 2026 depending on what they do with the other DT position after 2025. That's a 3-year window of being legit NFC Champ favorites. I was of the opinion that the Raiders would never trade Crosby, but after seeing that interview I'm thinking it's more of a possibility.

[Jimbo]

The more I think about it, I want to have Crosby here.  This team is ready for a super bowl.  Now we are in a way better situation than the Rams were 3 years ago.  It won't be trading your future for the chance at one championship.  I feel like a trade like this, you are trading away your future 4 years from now and I am good with that.  Unless you have Brady or Mahomes its not easy to be a super bowl contender for 10 years.  We finally have a good GM, so after their run, I am confident it will be a quick retooling.  He has also done a great job with later draft picks.  Hutch isn't getting replaced BTW, there has been talk about getting Crosby for over a year.  Every good/great team has to make hard decisions when it comes to the CAP and we are no different.  Luckily we haven't had to make those tough decisions yet because we were in such a great CAP situation.  You have no idea what kind of CAP situation the league will be in when we have to make those tough decisions.  I will trust whatever decision Holmes makes although I just feel like Crosby would fit in perfectly with this team.

[RedRamage]

15 hours ago, Hongbit said:

 

I personally think that's reading too much into his words. I think he's just saying that he's going to be putting it on the line every game to win. He's not interested in positing for better draft picks, just wants to win. Now, I SERIOUSLY hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this as any subtle clue that he's moving teams.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:04 AM, Hongbit said:

No. This is not what they mean about culture or bad guy.   This was an on-field incident 5 years ago that was caused by over-aggression.   He was chosen as Walter Payton Man of the Year candidate by his teammates the next season.    He is a hard worker that is loved by his teammates and puts winning first.   He’s a leader on his defense and someone that would be a huge fit.   Unfortunately he’s got $50m in dead cap or trade by the Browns and I don’t see them taking that on now.  

A bad guy is someone that focuses on individual accomplishments and money more than team success.  Someone that doesn’t put in the time effort or focus to constantly work or get better.  Someone that lacks the maturity to stay out of trouble off the field.  

You don't think Myles Garrett seems to be a Vontez Burfict type player in that he's emotionally unstable? I think a player snapping as Garrett did and trying to swing his helmet at someone in a violent manner like that, with intent to do serious injury, is not what this coaching staff is looking for. That's a Vontez Burfict type of move there where you go beyond playing the game and you have intent to injure. Maybe Garrett just lost control in the moment, but using his helmet as a weapon could have done serious, life altering damage to Mason Rudolph. The league thought so too and gave him a long suspension. I like Garrett as a player, but I don't know that his volatility fits this locker room. 

[Hongbit]

53 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

You don't think Myles Garrett seems to be a Vontez Burfict type player in that he's emotionally unstable? I think a player snapping as Garrett did and trying to swing his helmet at someone in a violent manner like that, with intent to do serious injury, is not what this coaching staff is looking for. That's a Vontez Burfict type of move there where you go beyond playing the game and you have intent to injure. Maybe Garrett just lost control in the moment, but using his helmet as a weapon could have done serious, life altering damage to Mason Rudolph. The league thought so too and gave him a long suspension. I like Garrett as a player, but I don't know that his volatility fits this locker room. 

No.  Burfict had issues dating back to college at Arizona St and then multiple ones in the NFL.  Garrett had one very bad moment five years ago.  He’s been voted to the pro bowl by his peers 5 times since and was also voted the 5th best player in the league last in a player vote.  The rest of the league doesn’t see him as a dirty player and either should you.   

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, RedRamage said:

I personally think that's reading too much into his words. I think he's just saying that he's going to be putting it on the line every game to win. He's not interested in positing for better draft picks, just wants to win. Now, I SERIOUSLY hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this as any subtle clue that he's moving teams.

It’s the “Wherever I’m gonna be part” that has people talking.   He wants to be competing for the playoffs.  The Raiders are 2-4 and at Rams this weekend.  They have KC and @Cincy left before the deadline.   If they are 2-7 or 3-6 they will be out of it.  

[CMRivdogs]

Working out this morning and caught the most ridiculous trade proposal. The Lions should offer Cleveland several (I didn't catch how many) first and second round picks for Myles Garrett AND Deshaun Watson. 
 

This was a guy who supposedly was a GM at one time for Miami and another team I didn't catch. Why would any sane football GM make that deal?

[Jimbo]

Yeah if were not taking on Watson's contract.  We would need Garret and multiple draft picks

[KnoxP]

My take on Holmes is that we can't assume anything.  He knew the situation then when he arrived and exceptionally executed a sound strategy to get us where we are now. Two totally different situations and he will execute them independently, without any connections.

He full on knows where this team is NOW and that nothing is certain for the future, he also trusts Campbell and Glenn and I think its a "group decision".

My opinion is if a premier guy (Crosby, Garrett) means giving up 2 firsts he won't do it...unless he thinks its worth it. HA!

I love this speculation though, since it means we are 'this close' to the Super Bowl. Think about how this would be playing out in a SOL scenario. 

Edited October 18 by KnoxP
typo

[MichiganCardinal]

34 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Yeah if were not taking on Watson's contract.  We would need Garret and multiple draft picks

Even then it's not worth it. The toxicity of Watson's contract cannot be understated.

 

[NYLion]

All this talk of Crosby yet zero talk that the Raiders are even remotely interested in trading him. None of this matters if he's not on the trade market. Maybe Crosby demands a trade like Adams did but until then this is pure fantasy. Even the same with Hendrickson where there's zero talk of the Bengals being interested in trading him although I do believe he requested a trade in the offseason so maybe slightly realistic?

Edited October 18 by NYLion

[Jimbo]

1 hour ago, NYLion said:

All this talk of Crosby yet zero talk that the Raiders are even remotely interested in trading him. None of this matters if he's not on the trade market. Maybe Crosby demands a trade like Adams did but until then this is pure fantasy. Even the same with Hendrickson where there's zero talk of the Bengals being interested in trading him although I do believe he requested a trade in the offseason so maybe slightly realistic?

The reason for all the talk for certain teams is that these teams are sellers.  I actually think if I was either the Raiders or the Browns I would trade both Garret and Crosby for a draft hall.  I actually think Dallas should be and should trade Parsons but we all know Jones wouldn't and still thinks they are a SB team.  If they (Crosby and Garret) were younger, its a different story because they will be in their prime when the team hopefully gets better.   Especially the Browns since they need cheep assets because of Watson's contract.  All is speculation because you really don't know if the Lions even want to do that type of trade as well.  Although its fun speculation.  Cincy is in a different situation because they are in a win now mode.  So unless they lose 2 out of the next 3 I don't see them being sellers.  That team feels like they can go on a hot streak.  I think Cincy is in a similar situation that the Jets were and is why they ended up being buyers.  There are so many situations of teams making quick turnarounds with big trades that brings them trade assets.  The Lions being one of them.  You need to have a good GM though to make that turnaround.

[Hongbit]

2 hours ago, NYLion said:

All this talk of Crosby yet zero talk that the Raiders are even remotely interested in trading him. None of this matters if he's not on the trade market. Maybe Crosby demands a trade like Adams did but until then this is pure fantasy. Even the same with Hendrickson where there's zero talk of the Bengals being interested in trading him although I do believe he requested a trade in the offseason so maybe slightly realistic?

The Raiders aren’t remotely interested in trading Crosby right now.  That’s very likely to change in two or three weeks.  

[RandyMarsh]

When asked about the rumors Za'Darius Smith said "he would like it" if he were traded to the Lions. He's somebody that I could see the team going after and not the big splash move. 

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

The Raiders aren’t remotely interested in trading Crosby right now.  That’s very likely to change in two or three weeks.  

I don't see the Raiders doing that even if they lose the next few games. Crosby is still relatively young and turning around in the NFL isn't like in baseball where it can take many seasons before you start to see a shift. Just look at the Lions: Three years from 3-13 to a NFC Championship game appearance. I suspect the Raiders feel they can rebuild around Crosby if need be.

It'll come down to Crosby expressing a desire to be traded.

Now, if the Raiders still stink next year then you only have two more years of Crosby... then maybe.

[Jason_R]

35 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

When asked about the rumors Za'Darius Smith said "he would like it" if he were traded to the Lions. He's somebody that I could see the team going after and not the big splash move. 

I’m sure players on about 25 teams would like to be traded to Detroit. And I’m sure just about everyone on the Browns roster wants to get traded out of Cleveland. 😂

[NYLion]

 

3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

When asked about the rumors Za'Darius Smith said "he would like it" if he were traded to the Lions. He's somebody that I could see the team going after and not the big splash move. 

This seems likely to me. I like Za'Darius, he's the type of edge the Lions love with his size, versatility and ability against the run plus he's apparently a high character guy but I'm not sure how much pass rushing ability he has left. Still a solid player though and should be had for cheap but I'm sure this won't appease the fanbase that want a gamewrecker, the type of player that is unrealistic tbh.

[KL2]

On 10/17/2024 at 5:59 PM, Jason_R said:

Oh right, the cap will rise but the player salaries won’t. That’s not how it works. Cap rises, salaries rise.

If the market for an edge rusher is 25 million a year or 27 million a year or 30 million a year, Crosby and Hutchinson are both going to be at the very top of that market. I don’t see how a team can invest more in its two edge rushers than all other teams invest in their entire defensive line.

That said, Crosby is making noise about wanting to contend. It seems like he is trying to follow Adams out of Vegas. I stick by my belief that the only way a move for Crosby works is if he comes here with the knowledge that Hutch is the franchise player and Crosby is the hired gun who will have to go when Hutch gets paid.

It is getting a little easier to imagine a trade for Crosby happening, but there is still a long way between here and there. 

You sure you know how contracts work? they aren't renegotiated every year. And guys top the old guys, look at patrick Mahomes. $450 million contract, 13th highest QB cap hit. Cap goes up but a two year old contract does not. 

[Jason_R]

52 minutes ago, KL2 said:

You sure you know how contracts work? they aren't renegotiated every year. And guys top the old guys, look at patrick Mahomes. $450 million contract, 13th highest QB cap hit. Cap goes up but a two year old contract does not. 

Show me a team that has $55-60 million tied up in two defensive ends. I'll wait.

I remember now why I had you on ignore. I'll leave you there.