Trading For a Defensive End/Edge Rusher

[Jason_R]

13 minutes ago, NYLion said:

I was kind of going back and forth on the Crosby idea, this all assuming that he's even remotely available, and now I'm all in as long as it's just two 1sts+minor stuff. 

I originally thought that he had just 1 more year left on his contract so 2 playoff runs essentially but now I see that he has 2 years left so 3 playoff runs with him and 2 with he and Hutch, plus his contract expires right when Hutch's new one kicks in so it's a perfect financial fit. I actually think Holmes would be interested for this very reason but also because he's the perfect culture fit. I'm skeptical that he's available at all but if he is I can see it being more palatable now.

Holmes is not the type to go big game hunting but there is the type of player, and contract, that he would do it for it's Crosby. It's probably like a 1% chance of happening but I'd put it at non-zero whereas I was at zero before learning the contract details.

Something tells me that LV will want much more than two picks in the 28-32 range for Crosby. Khalil Mack garnered two mid-round firsts and a third. 

But if they can get Crosby for two firsts and a third, that would set them up for two seasons of DL dominance. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Something tells me that LV will want much more than two picks in the 28-32 range for Crosby. Khalil Mack garnered two mid-round firsts and a third. 

But if they can get Crosby for two firsts and a third, that would set them up for two seasons of DL dominance. 

I fear that Ryan Poles will misread the situation and go all-in now and pay something stupid and over market to acquire either Crosby or Garrett to not only bolster the Bears but also try to block the Lions.   I can definitely see him as the one guy that gets fleeced in a deal with the Raiders.  

[RatkoVarda]

in general, any seller team knows the Lions have 1) a huge need and 2) a huge goal (SB win) - so every team is going to try to extract a premium from Brad knowing he has to do something

I would look at LAC - new coach might mean a reassessment of players, maybe Mack or Dupree for short term fix, or Tuipulotu for longer term impact

[RandyMarsh]

Teams have been willing to part with 3 1sts for a QB before but I don't think anything more than 2 has been done for a non qb in recent history so the Raiders may want more but history suggests that if the Lions were to offer 2 1sts and maybe another mid pick they wouldn't be able to get more elsewhere. 

[MichiganCardinal]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Can you imagine the line next year with Hutchinson, Crosby, McNeil and Reader? 

Probably both the best OL and DL in football.

[RatkoVarda]

The Athletic proposal seems to good to be true

Raiders trade DE Maxx Crosby to Lions for a 2025 first-round pick and a 2026 third-round pick

[Motown Bombers]

I would gladly make that trade. 

[MichiganCardinal]

39 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

The Athletic proposal seems to good to be true

Raiders trade DE Maxx Crosby to Lions for a 2025 first-round pick and a 2026 third-round pick

The bold resembled a headline, and you now owe me a heartbeat.

[RatkoVarda]

44 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

The Athletic proposal seems to good to be true

 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

 

So your saying there’s a chance.

[Jimbo]

Crosby or Garrett is going to take at least two 1rst to start the conversation.  Don't forget the Lions picks at this point looks like a very late 1rst round pick.  I have said this in a previous posts, it will look similar to the Mack trade.  This is a little different because its mid season and there isn't a contract situation but if it was going to happen it will look like that trade.

[buddha]

jared allen in his prime got one first round pick plus some mid rounders.

why does the bears' overpay for mack have to be the baseline?

in hindsight, the bears went 12-4 with mack...and then 8-8, 8-8, and 6-10.

in fairness to mack, he had to carry mitch "biscuit" trubisky around too.

[Motown Bombers]

Healthy scratch.

 

[Jimbo]

On 10/26/2024 at 4:03 PM, buddha said:

jared allen in his prime got one first round pick plus some mid rounders.

why does the bears' overpay for mack have to be the baseline?

in hindsight, the bears went 12-4 with mack...and then 8-8, 8-8, and 6-10.

in fairness to mack, he had to carry mitch "biscuit" trubisky around too.

I just think teams understand the Lions situation and these guys are in their prime.  Davis has come out now more than once to say he is not trading Crosby.  Also the Browns just beat the Ravens with Winston.  With the Lions keeping on winning, I don't see either Garrett or Crosby coming to the Lions unfortunately.  They definitely need to make a trade or trades for some defensive line (and LB) help.  I think its going to be more for mid level type guys but they make more than 1 trade.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

I just think teams understand the Lions situation and these guys are in their prime.  Davis has come out now more than once to say he is not trading Crosby.  Also the Browns just beat the Ravens with Winston.  With the Lions keeping on winning, I don't see either Garrett or Crosby coming to the Lions unfortunately.  They definitely need to make a trade or trades for some defensive line (and LB) help.  I think its going to be more for mid level type guys but they make more than 1 trade.

well right, it is overwhelmingly likely that neither garrett nor crosby are traded.  that doesnt mean if they WERE traded you'd have to give up multiple #1s to do it.

a smaller trade is more likely.

[Hongbit]

Raiders are always going to Raider but I don’t see how it makes sense to hold onto Maxx Crosby.      

They lack so much to be successful.   There’s no QB of the future.  There is no true #1 RB.  They traded away their top receiver and a rookie TE is the only offensive weapon.   They added a 3rd rounder in the Adams trade but that’s their only extra pick.  They have no stockpile of draft capital that will be needed to rebuild semi-quick.   Making matter worse, they are playing in a division that is ramping up in toughness very quickly as Sean Payton & Jim Harbaugh have the Broncos and Chargers playing well.    This a big uphill climb for the Raiders and one of the more challenging rebuilds in all the NFL.  

Crosby may finish this season but he’s not going to stay happy wasting the prime of his career in a multi-year rebuild.  He’s going to ask out and demand a trade by early next season and probably sooner.  Sure, Mark Davis wants to keep him but that’s the wrong move for everyone involved.  

 

 

 

[Jimbo]

Yeah I think both Browns and Raiders need to make trades for Garrett and Crosby.

Thing is we dealt with this kind of stuff for 30 years being a Lions fan.  Teams are scared to tell there fans they are doing a total rebuild and even though its tough to go through a complete rebuild, its the best for a franchise in the long run.  I am just happy we finally have competent management.  In the NFL if you have draft capital and competent management you can become relevant very quickly.

Edited Monday at 01:47 PM by Jimbo

[romad1]

22 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Healthy scratch.

 

He'd be a great Lion.  Loved MGOBLOG's take on JUCHE North Korean propaganda 

[NYLion]

17 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Raiders are always going to Raider but I don’t see how it makes sense to hold onto Maxx Crosby.      

They lack so much to be successful.   There’s no QB of the future.  There is no true #1 RB.  They traded away their top receiver and a rookie TE is the only offensive weapon.   They added a 3rd rounder in the Adams trade but that’s their only extra pick.  They have no stockpile of draft capital that will be needed to rebuild semi-quick.   Making matter worse, they are playing in a division that is ramping up in toughness very quickly as Sean Payton & Jim Harbaugh have the Broncos and Chargers playing well.    This a big uphill climb for the Raiders and one of the more challenging rebuilds in all the NFL.  

Crosby may finish this season but he’s not going to stay happy wasting the prime of his career in a multi-year rebuild.  He’s going to ask out and demand a trade by early next season and probably sooner.  Sure, Mark Davis wants to keep him but that’s the wrong move for everyone involved.  

 

 

 

It makes no sense, they're building around a pass rusher in his late 20s who will likely be increasingly unhappy as they wallow in misery in the coming years with no real direction as his value degrades with more term coming off his contract and him getting older. The right move would be to sell high now and accumulate futures for the rebuild but....Raiders gonna Raider so....

In terms of the Lions, Holmes needs to address the pass rush issue. I think the coverage was more an issue than the pass rush as Rudolph was carving them up early but they can't go into the Green Bay game with practice squad guys coming off the edge and no depth behind it. All of Hutch, Davenport, Barnes and Paschal are out. I believe strongly in the culture and next man up thing but this severe deficiency at edge is going to catch up with them sometime, it needs to be addressed ideally this week. They don't need a Crosby/Garrett level edge, just some viable NFL level guys.

Edited Monday at 01:52 PM by NYLion

[Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, NYLion said:

It makes no sense, they're building around a pass rusher in his late 20s who will likely be increasingly unhappy as they wallow in misery in the coming years with no real direction as his value degrades with more term coming off his contract and him getting older. The right move would be to sell high now and accumulate futures for the rebuild but....Raiders gonna Raider so....

In terms of the Lions, Holmes needs to address the pass rush issue. I think the coverage was more an issue than the pass rush as Rudolph was carving them up early but they can't go into the Green Bay game with practice squad guys coming off the edge and no depth behind it. All of Hutch, Davenport, Barnes and Paschal are out. I believe strongly in the culture and next man up thing but this severe deficiency at edge is going to catch up with them sometime, it needs to be addressed ideally this week. They don't need a Crosby/Garrett level edge, just some viable NFL level guys.

Pass rush helps coverage and coverage helps pass rush.  I know a lot of Lions fans are still not happy with the secondary.  I will admit I hoped it was better although we probably have the best Safety tandem in the NFL and the corners have played better lately with less penalties.  Their weakness on defense now is there ends and LB because of injuries (its the NFL).  So I want some pass rush help.  Would love the big names going around although I am good with a couple of middle of the road guys to help with depth and experience.

[KnoxP]

16 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Pass rush helps coverage and coverage helps pass rush.  I know a lot of Lions fans are still not happy with the secondary.  I will admit I hoped it was better although we probably have the best Safety tandem in the NFL and the corners have played better lately with less penalties.  Their weakness on defense now is there ends and LB because of injuries (its the NFL).  So I want some pass rush help.  Would love the big names going around although I am good with a couple of middle of the road guys to help with depth and experience.

Right now, I am good with the secondary. They are playing well.  This is a pass happy league and a good WR is going to get some plays and going to make some contested catches. Yesterday, is a great example. Ridley went off early, got over 100 in Q1 and ended up with 143 for the game. They tightened up or schemed differently and D pitched a shutout in the the second half. My take is they need to get pressure on QB first. That's priority.

[Tenacious D]

6 minutes ago, KnoxP said:

Right now, I am good with the secondary. They are playing well.  This is a pass happy league and a good WR is going to get some plays and going to make some contested catches. Yesterday, is a great example. Ridley went off early, got over 100 in Q1 and ended up with 143 for the game. They tightened up or schemed differently and D pitched a shutout in the the second half. My take is they need to get pressure on QB first. That's priority.

This.  And the Edge doesn’t have to be a superstar—we just need a starter who is better than our current options.  Like the guy on the Titans that ate up Decker in the early going.  Trade with the bottom feeders who are likely looking to next year and want some draft capital.

[MichiganCardinal]

23 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Yeah I think both Browns and Raiders need to make trades for Garrett and Crosby.

Thing is we dealt with this kind of stuff for 30 years being a Lions fan.  Teams are scared to tell there fans they are doing a total rebuild and even though its tough to go through a complete rebuild, its the best for a franchise in the long run.  I am just happy we finally have competent management.  In the NFL if you have draft capital and competent management you can become relevant very quickly.

I think a lesson to be learned around the NFL from the Lions success (that I hope they don't learn) is the value that can come from blowing it all up.

Head coaches and front office personnel are so afraid to lose their jobs nowadays (and fairly so given the number of quick hooks from ownership) that they have the blinders on to the long-term goals and mission of winning a Super Bowl. They would rather go between 7-10 and 10-7 in perpetuity, falling short of the playoffs in December/January or making a first round exit - maybe occasionally winning a playoff game - than go 2-15 or 3-14 in a single season, even if it meant genuine Super Bowl contention within three years. Because after 7-10, you can sell ownership on the few games you came up short, sell improvements that are really short-term bandaids, and keep your job another year.

If you told pretty much any NFL franchise (maybe sans the Chiefs) they could be where the Lions are today, but they'd have to suffer through a 3-13-1 season in 2021 first, they'd take it in a heartbeat. And when BH and DC came in, they knew what was going to happen in 2021. They said the right things publicly, about wanting to win (because of course they wanted to win), but in reality you had Tyrell Williams as your WR1 and Michael Brockers, Jamie Collins, Trey Flowers, and Jeff Okudah leading your defense. It was a tear down to the studs.

If the Raiders and Browns wanted to compete for a Super Bowl, and were willing to do what it takes, they would do the same. Rid the talent for the maximum draft capital you can acquire, resign yourself to 2-15 next season, and build from the ground up. Guys like Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, and Matt Stafford will keep you from going 2-15. You'll keep going 6-11, 7-10, maybe 9-8 or even 10-7 in a good year. But it comes at the expense of building an actual contender.

[MichiganCardinal]

If I set aside Garrett and Crosby, what Campbell said about what they're looking for is exactly right. If you can't replace Hutch, you need something serviceable where he would be on the field. We need a role player who can both set the edge and ideally provide some amount of rush on the quarterback.

Back to back weeks without Hutch, we've had the edge on one side of the field get burned badly for a score. It was Ukwu last week, who gave up the long score to Aaron Jones. This week the Titans first score came after Wingo bit hard on a play fake and then Nowaske got juked out of his shoes by Mason Rudolph of all people. Two of those three were inactive week one, and the one who was active (Wingo) played six snaps. We just need someone who can line up opposite Paschal, set the edge, and either make those tackles or buy enough time for our secondary and linebackers to catch up and make the tackle.