gothicalchemist Posted October 19 Share Posted October 19 It has been frustrating waiting for Torkelson to turn into an impact hitter. I'd love to be wrong about this; but I'm not sure that it will happen. The strikeouts, pop ups and double plays are too frequent. The promise created by the 2023 season has morphed into the reality of a dismal 2024 season. If 2025 turns into a carbon copy of 2024 what are the teams options? The free agent market at first base after Pete Alonso is not impressive. Most are over 30 and long FA contracts in that age group is risky. I believe that the Polar Bear will want a long term deal at well over 200 million. I'm not sure the Tigers want to take that risk. The best option would be a huge improvement by Tork, but that is far from certain. A 2023 repeat would suffice especially with his improvement on defense. The team cannot afford a hole in the offense at first base. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Welcome to the site. They won’t be patient. He showed some promise in the playoffs and his performance at the end of the season wasn’t terrible. But that’s not good enough. He has to get better. He’s in the plans for now because that’s the only option but they won’t let him get in their way if they see an opportunity. His status as a 1:1 will not interfere at all with a decision. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Read 2 articles this week speculating Det might consider trading Tork. Pittsburgh listed as possible destination. Doubt he has much of any value now, so it makes more sense to see how he does in spring training. Would guess he'll be back in Toledo if he struggles. People here floated Christian Walker. If he'd come for 2/30-40 that would make sense. Someone will offer him 3/50-60 though. Might only have Skubal 2 more years. Time to push some chips in is now imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 I was glad to hear what Harris said about Torkelson needing to work on handling 'shapes' which I guess is 21st century GM argot for pitch recognition, as opposed to what Hinch usually said about Tork in earlier days, which was that he needed to 'hit good pitches.' If Harris has shifted the objective for Tork away from selectivity (which I think Tork was over doing) toward hitting what the pitcher throws in the zone, that is a direction where I think progress is possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Pete Alonso is what Tork can only hope to be. That’s his max upside. I’m not sure how he gets there with us. I think he’s one of those gotta-go-up-there-with-a-clear-head guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 4 hours ago, chasfh said: Pete Alonso is what Tork can only hope to be. That’s his max upside. I’m not sure how he gets there with us. I think he’s one of those gotta-go-up-there-with-a-clear-head guys. Do you mean like “quit thinking”? I recall someone once asking Lou what a pitch he hit was and he said he didn’t know. He just sees the ball and tries to hit it. I have no idea if that approach can work today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Just now, oblong said: Do you mean like “quit thinking”? I recall someone once asking Lou what a pitch he hit was and he said he didn’t know. He just sees the ball and tries to hit it. I have no idea if that approach can work today. Yeah, something like that. I think it’s possible Tork may be one of those guys who can’t deal with information. Not everyone can. Of course, the see-ball-hit-ball approach works fine up to a certain level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gothicalchemist Posted October 23 Author Share Posted October 23 Yogi Berra once said that you can't think and hit at the same time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) Need to send Torkeson to train with Max (who BTW is too young to have ever had a Rolodex!) Edited October 23 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papalawrence Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Short leash for sure. He had a terrible year.. Harris can find a CJ Cron type from the heap, until some of the 19 year old youngsters are ready. Maybe between Lee, Keith and Jung 1b and 2b could be covered. I think we might see Lee called up next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 10 hours ago, papalawrence said: Short leash for sure. He had a terrible year.. Harris can find a CJ Cron type from the heap, until some of the 19 year old youngsters are ready. Maybe between Lee, Keith and Jung 1b and 2b could be covered. I think we might see Lee called up next season Harris basically threw down the gauntlet to Tork in the end of season press conference: they need to have a big offseason and improve himself and his production at first base. We are a contender now and we can’t afford to see him fail his way to getting better for us. Not for nothing, Casey Mize is in the same boat. The organization has spent time and treasure trying to get his potential out of him and 2021 is the only decent season he’s turned in so far. We’re basically a winner now and we’re doing it without Mize. He wasn’t even on the playoff roster. I think this is absolutely the last chance for both of them here, and actually, it wouldn’t surprise me to see one and/or the other traded in the offseason to someplace that thinks they can fix them. We won’t take something/anything for him, but with Harris in charge, I don’t think it will come down to that, anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Mize can throw 97 which means he will continue to get looks, if not from us from someone, but the fact that his performance pretty much got worse all season is not in his favor. Torkelon at least was an increment better after his return then when he was sent down; needs to add another increment to that to hold down his gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICroupier Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 (edited) 20 minutes ago, chasfh said: Harris basically threw down the gauntlet to Tork in the end of season press conference: they need to have a big offseason and improve himself and his production at first base. We are a contender now and we can’t afford to see him fail his way to getting better for us. Not for nothing, Casey Mize is in the same boat. The organization has spent time and treasure trying to get his potential out of him and 2021 is the only decent season he’s turned in so far. We’re basically a winner now and we’re doing it without Mize. He wasn’t even on the playoff roster. I think this is absolutely the last chance for both of them here, and actually, it wouldn’t surprise me to see one and/or the other traded in the offseason to someplace that thinks they can fix them. We won’t take something/anything for him, but with Harris in charge, I don’t think it will come down to that, anyway. I don't see either being traded this offseason, but I agree that next year is make-or-break for Tork and Mize. I like the idea of a platoon of Jung / Lee / Keith covering 1B and 2B. But I do worry if we're just running it back next season with our bats (besides adding Lee) that we just won't have enough offense yet again. We need to add an impact RH bat in the offseason, but not someone who strikes out a lot and is basically a better Tork. But where do they play? And who sits? I'm fine with Perez as a 4th OF, and I'm not as high on JHM as many others. Are we handing the SS keys to Sweeney? Does Vierling get an everyday spot? If answer is yes to both, then there's not really not much we can do to upgrade. Edited October 24 by ICroupier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Tork was somewhat better after returning from his demotion, but his best self is just not happening here is there a similar struggling young player who 1) might be a better fit and 2) like Tork, benefit from a change? don't think STL is giving up on Jordan Walker, but he's a RH bat Bret Baty? Curtis Mead? Oswald Peraza? Noelvi Marte? prefer they move on and sign Walker while waiting for Briceno/Liranzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 My guess is the answer at first base for 2026 or 2027 is Liranzo. Tork needs to be gone. He will never improve hear. He would probably do well in Arizona or Anaheim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate7474 Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 34 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said: My guess is the answer at first base for 2026 or 2027 is Liranzo. Tork needs to be gone. He will never improve hear. He would probably do well in Arizona or Anaheim. I agree with you but with a different prospect. I think it’s Briceno that’s more likely to man first base out of current prospects. Liranzo has some tools to work with so I’d imagine they keep working on that with him for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Mize needs to simplify what he’s doing. He should stick to a 3 pitch arsenal and really master them. Obviously, Fastball and Sinker stay. He should decide if it’s Slider, Curve, or Change that becomes the 3rd pitch. He’s just got to be much better controlling the zone. He’s either right in the sweet spot or so far off that hitters don’t chase. He’s got a few really strong pitches and few very weak ones that he should not even throw anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeytargets39 Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 I can see Mize moving to a bullpen setup role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 8 hours ago, chasfh said: Harris basically threw down the gauntlet to Tork in the end of season press conference: they need to have a big offseason and improve himself and his production at first base. We are a contender now and we can’t afford to see him fail his way to getting better for us. Not for nothing, Casey Mize is in the same boat. The organization has spent time and treasure trying to get his potential out of him and 2021 is the only decent season he’s turned in so far. We’re basically a winner now and we’re doing it without Mize. He wasn’t even on the playoff roster. I think this is absolutely the last chance for both of them here, and actually, it wouldn’t surprise me to see one and/or the other traded in the offseason to someplace that thinks they can fix them. We won’t take something/anything for him, but with Harris in charge, I don’t think it will come down to that, anyway. Same with Manning. His days in Detroit appear over. Harris doesn't seem like a GM who makes many trades. Maybe with the Tigers talent improving, he'll make some waves in the trade department. I don't think he'll take on any established (and expensive) players though. I wouldn't be against trading Tork and putting Keith at 1st base. I guess I'm not too impressed with the defense Keith provides at 2nd base. His range seems limited, especially going to his right, up the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 3 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: I can see Mize moving to a bullpen setup role Yeah - I think he gets another shot at starting, but you and Hongbit may have the long term idea. If he goes short maybe he can push his his velo nearer triple digits and throw one breaking ball and maybe you have yourself another Will Vest. That's might be a defeat at some level for a 1/1 but you can't let yourself miss your best chance over sunk cost fallacies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 46 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Same with Manning. I wonder. I imagine Manning will still get a look, I think they just have nothing more to say about him. He has to produce. If he does, they'll find him room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TcFlint Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Until Torkelson can prove he can be an everyday player, he should be in a platoon at 1B in 2025 with a free agent, Carpenter, or perhaps Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 4 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: I can see Mize moving to a bullpen setup role As long as we were to get positive wins out of the guy, I wouldn't care what his role is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 51 minutes ago, TcFlint said: Until Torkelson can prove he can be an everyday player, he should be in a platoon at 1B in 2025 with a free agent, Carpenter, or perhaps Keith. A lot of hay gets made about how this team is the second incarnation of the Get Along Gang, and personally, I love that that's the case. But I would bet if Torkelson were reduced to a platoon role, he'd launch a campaign of dropping turds into the clubhouse punch bowl on the regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlue Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 Tork needs to start the season at least average instead of poor if he wants to make through 2025. Last two years slow starts killed him and with the higher expectations will kill the team. I think he is on a short leash, at least with the parent club, yet, not even sure more AAA time helps him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.