Torkelson

[gehringer_2]

49 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

After Tork returned from minors and Greene the IL, Tork had a 125 OPS+, only one point worse than Greene. So not accurate to say he contributed next to nothing to the playoff run. That's not to say he is a long-term solution at 1B. 

Right. The question is which player will Torkelson be next season? 2023 + Sept 2024, or April-May 2024? We can kick around our theories about him and make our predictions, but the answer doesn't come until we see how he plays when they come back.

Edited October 27, 2024 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

12 hours ago, Arlington said:

Tork playing in his Aug 2023 form would be huge for this team.  He certainly would get his chances against lefties hitting among Keith, Greene and Carpenter.  Grabbing a right-handed third baseman who could fill the void at 1st if Tork is moved would be an option. 

I was looking at his splits the other day because of the optimism about his 2nd half. It was a feast in August and famine in September, relatively speaking.  If he can find a way to get that .419 BABIP in August to apply more consistently throughout the season, that’d be dandy.  I’m just not sure it’s going to happen.

I agree about a RHH 3B.  I’m just not as sold on throwing money at Bregman as others.  I don’t know if an under the radar shorter term signing with someone they think they can fix up is the answer or if they’ll have to go the trade route.  And I don’t mind Vierling getting occasional time at 3B, but I think he’s more of an OF that can get more playing time than just as a platoon player and would be more effective on the grass.

[casimir]

54 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

After Tork returned from minors and Greene the IL, Tork had a 125 OPS+, only one point worse than Greene. So not accurate to say he contributed next to nothing to the playoff run. That's not to say he is a long-term solution at 1B. 

Well, his OPS was .677 on a .298 BABIP when the Tigers were in more or a playoff run than in August.  I think in fairness, looking at his 2nd half can be split up a bit.

I don’t know what ultimately becomes of him.   I think it’s fine to have him work on things this off-season and spring training with the intent of him being he starting 1B on Opening Day.  He did show improved defensive ability, so that aptitude for building his skill set up is there.  But I wouldn’t consider that a locked down position for the season.  

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

After Tork returned from minors and Greene the IL, Tork had a 125 OPS+, only one point worse than Greene. So not accurate to say he contributed next to nothing to the playoff run. That's not to say he is a long-term solution at 1B. 

Maybe we should consider trading Tork while his value is spiking.

[Tenacious D]

Dumping/releasing any of Manning, Mize or Tork at this point would be foolish.  Plenty others we can take off the 40 man as needed.

[1776]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Maybe we should consider trading Tork while his value is spiking.

Is Al Avila in the GM chair anywhere?

[Hinchman11]

I get the impression reading between the lines of the Harris presser that both are in need of going all-in on the Tigers development plan or won’t be here much longer.

 

Tork didn’t really buy in until he got sent down, finally ditching the personal hitting coach over what the team see’s. Mize doesn’t have enough spin to rely on his stuff over the poor command he showed this year. He didn’t always seem in full agreement at times with the Hinch plan

[HeyAbbott]

Tork is a baked cake. What you see is what you get. I am going to assume until proven otherwise by Torkelson's on field play that he is not now, and never will be a credible MLB first baseman.

[gehringer_2]

On 10/27/2024 at 4:28 PM, Hinchman11 said:

finally ditching the personal hitting coach

hadn't seen that. Probably a good sign.

 

[SeattleMike]

On 10/27/2024 at 4:28 PM, Hinchman11 said:

I get the impression reading between the lines of the Harris presser that both are in need of going all-in on the Tigers development plan or won’t be here much longer.

 

Tork didn’t really buy in until he got sent down, finally ditching the personal hitting coach over what the team see’s. Mize doesn’t have enough spin to rely on his stuff over the poor command he showed this year. He didn’t always seem in full agreement at times with the Hinch plan

My understanding, through secondary sources, is that Tork has consistently resisted making changes that the organization has recommended. Maybe he is beginning to come around. 

[TcFlint]

On 10/31/2024 at 6:26 PM, SeattleMike said:

My understanding, through secondary sources, is that Tork has consistently resisted making changes that the organization has recommended. Maybe he is beginning to come around. 

I have heard the same thing and Torkelson has said it himself.  On the other hand, Meadows went down and was receptive to changes.

[chasfh]

I'm just having trouble envisioning Tork ever becoming a great major league hitter. I think he could be very good for stretches here and there, and who knows, maybe even make a All-Star team someday. But i don't see him as a cornerstone of a World Series contender year after year. He's just got too many holes, in hitting and defensive technique certainly, but also, it appears, in makeup. I envision his ceiling as being a second-division regular into his early-to-mid 30s. Maybe a 10 or 15 WAR guy by the time he's all done. Again, think Eric Karros, who I mentioned as a comp for Tork on Page 2. Another comp I'm thinking of is Mitch Moreland.

[Longgone]

On 11/7/2024 at 2:04 PM, TcFlint said:

I have heard the same thing and Torkelson has said it himself.  On the other hand, Meadows went down and was receptive to changes.

You’re reading too much into random comments. No one has encouraged changes to his actual swing. They have encouraged changes to his lower body mechanics and his approach, which he has been diligent about.

[TcFlint]

On 11/8/2024 at 5:20 PM, Longgone said:

You’re reading too much into random comments. No one has encouraged changes to his actual swing. They have encouraged changes to his lower body mechanics and his approach, which he has been diligent about.

That is incorrect.  He has resisted any changes to his swing.  Not sure about the lower body, but whatever he is doing or not doing is not working.

Edited November 11, 2024 by TcFlint

[chasfh]

People sometimes like to point out that Tork came back after Toledo and improved, and this chart shows that is objectively true, but he still had long stretches of games late where he was well under .300 wOBA. For context, MLB average wOBA is .310.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

People sometimes like to point out that Tork came back after Toledo and improved, and this chart shows that is objectively true, but he still had long stretches of games late where he was well under .300 wOBA. For context, MLB average wOBA is .310.

no doubt. When he came back he was better, but he still wasn't great. Can he continue to consolidate whatever gains he made in approach? If he were to take another step equivalent to the step he took on his return he'd be in useful range - so that's the question - can he? I think they are going to give him the chance unless something literally fall into their lap for 1B. So we'll probably find out.

Edited November 11, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Longgone]

23 hours ago, TcFlint said:

That is incorrect.  He has resisted any changes to his swing.  Not sure about the lower body, but whatever he is doing or not doing is not working.

 

23 hours ago, TcFlint said:

That is incorrect.  He has resisted any changes to his swing.  Not sure about the lower body, but whatever he is doing or not doing is not working.

Read what I wrote. No one has encouraged him to change his actual swing, so there is nothing to resist. His stance and lower body mechanics and approach, yes, and he has been diligent in working on those aspects.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Longgone said:

 

Read what I wrote. No one has encouraged him to change his actual swing, so there is nothing to resist. His stance and lower body mechanics and approach, yes, and he has been diligent in working on those aspects.

This feels right. Tork's swing is a beautiful thing now, it's what he chooses to swing at, or maybe what he needs to be able to get his swing on that he hasn't in the past, that needs to change. I've though for a while that his biggest problem was plate coverage, and I think Harris said as much in the post-season presser. In that sense maybe he has to learn to/become more willing to, take what he regards as a less than perfect swing to defend the zone better.

[casimir]

10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

This feels right. Tork's swing is a beautiful thing now, it's what he chooses to swing at, or maybe what he needs to be able to get his swing on that he hasn't in the past, that needs to change. I've though for a while that his biggest problem was plate coverage, and I think Harris said as much in the post-season presser. In that sense maybe he has to learn to/become more willing to, take what he regards as a less than perfect swing to defend the zone better.

I sometimes wonder if the success he had in his earlier seasons have adversely affected him.  Did he struggle enough at a younger age to develop the process to overcome issues he would encounter later on?

[Longgone]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

I sometimes wonder if the success he had in his earlier seasons have adversely affected him.  Did he struggle enough at a younger age to develop the process to overcome issues he would encounter later on?

I tend to think Tork will be fine, considering his talent and work ethic, on the other hand, baseball is a ruthless, fickle bitch.

[chasfh]

How do we know Tork has above average work ethic? I'm not saying he doesn't, but I have not seen anything to indicate that he has above average work ethic.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Longgone said:

I tend to think Tork will be fine, considering his talent and work ethic, on the other hand, baseball is a ruthless, fickle bitch.

Has good power, can get round on velo, and has a good low O-Zone swing rate (not fooled too much). His problem is getting his inZoneContact rate up.

[Tigermojo]

26 minutes ago, chasfh said:

How do we know Tork has above average work ethic? I'm not saying he doesn't, but I have not seen anything to indicate that he has above average work ethic.

It's all the time he puts into creating the team celly.

[chasfh]

Just now, Tigermojo said:

It's all the time he puts into creating the team celly.

Wish I wasn't out of reaction, so, laugh!

[casimir]

7 hours ago, Longgone said:

I tend to think Tork will be fine, considering his talent and work ethic, on the other hand, baseball is a ruthless, fickle bitch.

Well, he’s also only 25 years old.  There’s still time for this to work out.