Red Wings November 2024 Game Thread

[gehringer_2]

31 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

But what happens if they end up with a points total in the 70s

 They are stuck in purgatory with a bunch of forwards who can't play a high level game and a defense that is too old and slow across it's bottom half. So Seider/Edvinnson and Raymond are good players - Cossa might be a good goalie. That's not nearly enough from the system in 4yrs. At this rate Larkin will be collecting his pension before they ever fill out a 20 main roster around him. 

[buddha]

they havent hit - or havent given a chance - to anyone outside round one.

mazur, hanas, lombardi, buium...

they dont bring anyone up until they have to (berggren, johannson, kasper) and once they get here, theyre not that bad!  not world beaters, but theyre young with room to grow.  instead we have to sit through compher and copp and fischer and motte and veleno middling along doing nothing badly but nothing well.

that's why i think the plan was always muddle through until next season.  this season was always going to be a transition year.

but to stanley's point, they havent gotten any impact, star players out of any of the drafts so far.  and the two real "finds" in the trade market (walman and vrana) had to be traded away with assets.

i give yzerman a little more slack than stanley, but he's got a definite point.  they suck this year and its looking increasingly likely they dont have any stars to bail them out (although i have high hopes for asp, danielson, and mbn...probably too high). theyre old, capped out this year, and bad.

how much longer do you go with a gm whose strategy has brought you to the mushy middle?  i dont think yzerman will leave until he wants to leave, but his vision is definitely in question now.

[lordstanley]

I’m thinking of this more as wanting Yzerman to stay and change course/make moves. Rather than dump Yzerman, which isn’t going to happen anyways. The patient, plenty of time approach has turned into a muddle. So I’d definitely consider gunning for Marner. I’d also consider trading Larkin (do any of Winnipeg, Dallas, NYR, Carolina need him?), which seems contradictory to signing Marner but doesn’t have to be if the assets back for Larkin are younger players with upside or are draft picks that can immediately be flipped for NHL talent. Since the Wings under Yzerman haven’t proven they can score big at anything below a top 7 pick, whether that is due to scouting or development, I’d be open if the price is right to trading any picks from the 2025-2026 draft and anyone drafted 2022-2024. Basically, other than Seider and Raymond and maybe Cossa, I’d say no one is untouchable for the right deal, not even Larkin or Edvinsson. If the Wings give up on the season, they won’t end up with a top 3 pick but likely would get a top 10 pick, which if nothing else is strong trade capital. 

[Motor City Sonics]

Well, The Yzerplan is failing.  It's a flop.   The thing that you need to remember is that in order to make the playoffs in this sport, you only have to be in the top half of your conference and this team can't even do that after this long?      Not acceptable.  Yzerman's seat should be quite warm right now. 

[gehringer_2]

6 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Since the Wings under Yzerman haven’t proven they can score big at anything below a top 7 pick,

This. 1000%. Ultimately in a cap world you are going to have a hard time trading your way up, you must out draft other teams to make progress. You have the same GM as operated in the Tampa build -  but he has surrounded himself with more of his old pals in this gig and I wonder if they are not performing at the level his Tampa staff did. Is he is more comfortable with them than he should be?

Edited November 11, 2024 by gehringer_2

[lordstanley]

Pavel’s Hall of Fame induction speech today. 
https://x.com/HockeyAgent1/status/1856158389610430559
 

 

Edited November 12, 2024 by lordstanley

[buddha]

great player

[buddha]

where does datsyuk rank on the all time wings list?

howe, lidstrom, yzerman, lindsay...

is he above delvechio or federov?

[lordstanley]

10 hours ago, buddha said:

where does datsyuk rank on the all time wings list?

howe, lidstrom, yzerman, lindsay...

is he above delvechio or federov?

Good question.  I can’t really comment on Delvecchio, didn’t even see him on TV. 
Fedorov had a higher peak than Datsyuk, IMO. I wouldn’t argue strongly against anyone who placed either of them over the other. 

Edited November 12, 2024 by lordstanley

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Good question.  I can’t really comment on Delvecchio, didn’t even see him on TV. 
Fedorov had a higher peak than Datsyuk, IMO. I wouldn’t argue strongly against anyone who placed either of them over the other. 

I saw Delvecchio but not in his prime. I remember him mostly between Howe and Norm Ullman, which was still a very good line. But the game is so different today a comparison to that era seem almost meaningless.

Federov is a more  conceivable comparison. I think Pavel was more artful, more extraordinary coordination leading to more impossible plays, but to me Federov was the better player just because of his much greater physical capacity. Pavel's impacts were episodic in a game and he could be muscled.  Federov was more the end to end force all the time time he was on the ice  -OK we are talking 'good' Sergie here, not one we sometimes got in later years.  But bottom line I absolutely would have traded a 23 yr old Datsuk for a 23 yr old Federov without a second thought.

[Shinzaki]

I caught the tail end of Delvecchio's career...Looking st his numbers..he was a very steady performer.   Had two very good seasons after turning 40...like Federov...he was never really "the man" on his teams, that distinction belonged to Gordie....and in the case of Federov, Yzerman.

I don't know that Pavel was ever the man either.  He was always linked to Z and of course Lidstrom...

In terms of pure talent, Federov was probably more gifted than both of them, but Federov may be the most physically gifted player I've seen here going back 50+ years.

Delvecchio and Pavel were more traditional C's who facilitated more than they scored.  Federov was more of a goal scorer.  They all played into their late 30's / early 40's.  

Super close but I'd probably go Delvecchio..then Federov then Datsyuk.

[slothfacekilla]

Fedorov has to be last on the list because everyone is spelling his name wrong!

 

I never saw Delvecchio, I honestly rate Fedorov and Datsyuk about the same with a slight edge to Sergei.  He was probably a touch less creative than Datsyuk but had more power to his game and could play any position on the ice.  Datsyuk had one more Selke win but Fedorov had a Hart trophy on his resume.  Pavel did elevate his linemates a little more I think, but could just be my faulty memory.  Either way I feel lucky that they were both Wings.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, slothfacekilla said:

Pavel did elevate his linemates a little more I think, but could just be my faulty memory.  Either way I feel lucky that they were both Wings.

TBF, it's hard to elevate your wing mate much when it's often Steve Yzerman. 

I agree with most of the comments here. Pavel was the heir of Igor Larionov, but with even more flair. In an odd way I would put Fedorov into a group closer to Messier. He wasn't a bruiser like Messier so so no comparison on that end at all but he had the same all over the ice impact.

Edited November 13, 2024 by gehringer_2

[slothfacekilla]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

TBF, it's hard to elevate your wing mate much when it's often Steve Yzerman. 

I agree with most of the comments here. Pavel was the heir of Igor Larionov, but with even more flair. In an odd way I would put Fedorov into a group closer to Messier. He wasn't a bruiser like Messier so so no comparison on that end at all but he had the same all over the ice impact.

Haha great point!  I feel like I just remember Sergei being more of a "I'm going to do this all myself" type of player when he was locked in whereas Datsyuk always struck me as more of a facilitator when he was firing on all cylinders.  Which says a lot because he sure could score and play defense too.  Both were generational players in my opinion.

[lordstanley]

Pens will be ticked heading into tonight's game against the Wings. Lost 7-1 the other day to Dallas. Malkin even apologized to the fans. Yikes, as poor as the Pens are, they could unleash against the Wings like they did on opening night. At 13 points, the Wings are just 1 pt above the NHL basement, although they do have games in hand on many teams.

https://www.nhl.com/news/evgeni-malkin-apologizes-to-pittsburgh-fans-after-loss-to-dallas

Edited November 14, 2024 by lordstanley

[Sports_Freak]

This road trip will tell us a lot about the Wings.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 11/9/2024 at 10:10 PM, Motor City Sonics said:

You have to start questioning whether Lalonde is the right guy for this. 

I've started really wondering that this season. I don't think last year, when some people were saying it, I bought into the idea too much. But this team is taking steps backwards and with largely the same roster, plus Tarasenko and Talbot added in. If they were losing because they called up all of their young guys right away like ASP, Danielson, Kasper, Mazur and were just too inexperienced a roster to win with, that I would get. But this year they just feel like they've collectively either been stuck in neutral at best or taken a small step back at worst. I pin part of that on Lalonde.

[slothfacekilla]

I thought the Wings played pretty well in the first there (12 shots!) but it is against the Pens.

[slothfacekilla]

Wings are up 2-0 about half way through the game.  Petry actually made a good play clearing the puck to Tarasenko to start a rush the other way.  Tarasenko fed it to Berggren and he scored his first of the season!  Raymond made a nice puck retrieval, then Larkin a nice pass to Kane on the PP to go up 2-0.  I was just about to type that they're getting way more chances than the Pens but Rust just made it 2-1 after walking around Seider, ugh.

[slothfacekilla]

Really bizarre play where I guess Puljujarvi wasn't looking where he was skating (though I swear he sees Raymond) and neither was Raymond.  Raymond definitely didn't see him and it looked like Puljujarvi braced a bit, bad collision for Raymond who limped to the bench.  Hope he's ok...seems like they're working on his shoulder on the bench.

[slothfacekilla]

2-2 I didn't see their goal, but feels deflating after the good start.  Maybe I'll go make dinner...

[lordstanley]

10 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

2-2 I didn't see their goal, but feels deflating after the good start.  Maybe I'll go make dinner...

2-0 Wings when I went to take a shower. 2-2 when I came back out. Moral of the story: don’t bathe?

[buddha]

seider should be embarassed by that goal he gave up.

[slothfacekilla]

Seider needs to make some sort of adjustment he can't keep getting beat wide like this...

[buddha]

SHOOT THE PUCK AT THE NET!  STOP MISSING THE DAMN NET!