Time to blow this team up? Or stay the course?

[Motor City Sonics]

Sorry , I missed that they waved Husso.   About time.     I don't think the two goalies they have now are all that good.   Give Cossa a chance.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

And for crying out loud, how much more seasoning Sebastian Cossa need? 

I have to believe SY feels he was brought up too soon and he over projects about it. Plus maybe he picked up some of it from Scotty (who hated young players, esp on D) along the way. But no-one they bring up now is going to be cast into the same kind of pressure to be 'the guy' he was. There are established players on this team in Larkin, Seider, Raymond, etc. And it's a different league - with all the speed it's a younger man's game than it used to be.

[Kacie]

13 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

A new coach wouldn't make a difference?    I strongly disagree with that.    But, it would probably be a situation where the next one that comes in is going to need to be a bit of a ****.   I have seen teams in hockey, as well as baseball, nearly instantly turn around when that kind of manager/coach comes in, but it usually is a short term coach as the initial push will grind on everyone in a few months.    Still really early in the season, but where nearing the quarter mark here and if there isn't some spark by then (Mid December) this season will be lost.    You can look to the St. Louis Blues from a few years ago as an extreme example.   Craig Berube came in and cracked down on everyone and got them all the way to a Cup victory.    Mike Keenan and Joel Quenville did that too, but Keenan didn't make any friends (and didn't care).   This team just looks lost and while they let a lot of goals walk out the door in the offseason, there is no excuse for being this flat.  None at all.  There is talent there, it's just not being used or guided right.    Again, I bring up Gerard Gallant's name.  He never lasts long, but he does light a fire under guys.   I just don't know if there is some rift between he and Stevie or maybe Stevie does not want to hire a personal friend that he knows he'll probably end up having to fire.   

The pressure builds too.  The Lions have this city on fire,  we saw what that incredible run did for the Tigers and I've got news for you, the idea of the Pistons having a winning record is not all that crazy.  The East is weak this year.   They are 6-8 and only a handful of plays away from being 9-5.  They're 2-0 in NBA Cup play.   They have lost several close games and the losses that were not as close, they weren't hitting shots, but they were GETTING them, and they are very young and they are losing close games like a young team does.     The Wings are lagging behind all the other teams.  

Yep, Stevie hired LaLonde and while he would have to admit he made a mistake, I also think he needs to put his ego aside a bit, like he did as a player.   It ain't workin'.     All you need to be in the NHL to make the playoffs is in the top half of your conference and that's not all that impressive, but they can't even do that and that's embarrassing this far in to Stevie's tenure.   I know turning around MLB and NHL teams takes longer than the NFL or NBA, but asking for this kind of patience is not what fans want to hear now,  not with everyone else in the city getting good. 

And for crying out loud, how much more seasoning Sebastian Cossa need?   He's got a .937 save pct and 1.89 GAA this year.   I think he might be ready for a look.   He wouldn't have to carry the load either.    Is he injured right now?   

Agree with all this.  Are the players really that bad or is it a coaching and management staff not getting enough from them?  I have to say SY and Lalonde lost me at the end of last season when elaborating on the end of season collapse.  Their response was pretty much, meh, we weren't expecting to make the playoffs anyway.  The year before with the Ottawa debacle while in the playoff hunt was to sell at the deadline and the team went into a tailspin.  

Yes, we're all mesmerized by Dan Campbell and probably not another one like him, but hard not to look at this Red Wings team and see they have no Grit.  Could another coach turn this lackluster bunch into a playoff team?  I don't see how it could be much worse.  Been a diehard for years, but I didn't even have any interest in watching the past few games.  Not only do they not win, they're boring as hell.

Organizationally, I think a really deep dive into the scouting, developing and preparation of the players is necessary.  Yes, Holland left the cupboards bare, but enough already.  Maybe not a management team of mostly former players?  Greatness on the ice doesn't necessarily transfer to management or scouting

 

[lordstanley]

Anything on the Rangers of interest to the Wings? And vice versa?

[buddha]

Kane...

[lordstanley]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

Kane...

Yep, that could make sense.

I forgot to embed the Twitter post that prompted my question.

 

 

[buddha]

trouba - as we know - has a no trade clause.

[lordstanley]

Carolina is down to their 3rd string goalie  and looking. Offer them their choice of Lyon or Talbot and call up Cossa to back up the one who stays?

 

 

[buddha]

Jiricek traded to minnesota for a dman, a conditional first, a second, a third and a fourth (spaced out over the next 3 drafts).

i would never make that deal if i'm detroit.

[lordstanley]

30 minutes ago, buddha said:

Jiricek traded to minnesota for a dman, a conditional first, a second, a third and a fourth (spaced out over the next 3 drafts).

i would never make that deal if i'm detroit.

Agreed. I saw Jiriicek speculation and was intrigued but didn’t expect the price to be that much. 

[slothfacekilla]

I guess people remember he was drafted super high?  Seems like a lot, I haven't seen him play much but apparently his skating isn't fantastic.  It'll be interesting to see how he does with the Wild

[AlaskanTigersFan]

Guess we'll see who was right about the coach..... If they miss the playoff's, maybe it is time to blow it up again......

[slothfacekilla]

The roster is already constructed to basically turnover this offseason and next with how the contracts are.  I wouldn't mind them getting anything they can for older guys these next two seasons, but they definitely aren't going to make the playoffs and I think a "blow up" will just happen naturally by not re-signing expiring deals these next two offseasons (or I hope).

If I were to play armchair GM.... this offseason let Kane, Fischer, Petry and Motte walk.  Bring over ASP, bring over/call up MBN and/or Danielson.  Throw a bunch of money at Mikko Rantanen.  Look to sign someone like Dante Fabbro as ASP insurance if he needs to go to the AHL to get used to ice size.  Trade Lyon before the deadline this year and then call up Cossa in the offseason.

Next offseason after that, let Tarasenko, Veleno, Chiarot, Holl and Gustaffson walk elsewhere.  Sign Edvinsson to a long term deal.  Hopefully Mazur, Wallinder and maybe Buium are ready for a taste of the NHL.  Maybe this upcoming draft we get a really good player that could be in the mix.  Pray one of Karpizov, Connor, Necas, Eichel, or Kempe hits free agency especially if we don't sign Mikko Rantanen last offseason.  Sign a defender or two to ~2 year deals, hopefully with a more emphasis on playing defense. Make Cossa the starter.

[buddha]

6 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

The roster is already constructed to basically turnover this offseason and next with how the contracts are.  I wouldn't mind them getting anything they can for older guys these next two seasons, but they definitely aren't going to make the playoffs and I think a "blow up" will just happen naturally by not re-signing expiring deals these next two offseasons (or I hope).

If I were to play armchair GM.... this offseason let Kane, Fischer, Petry and Motte walk.  Bring over ASP, bring over/call up MBN and/or Danielson.  Throw a bunch of money at Mikko Rantanen.  Look to sign someone like Dante Fabbro as ASP insurance if he needs to go to the AHL to get used to ice size.  Trade Lyon before the deadline this year and then call up Cossa in the offseason.

Next offseason after that, let Tarasenko, Veleno, Chiarot, Holl and Gustaffson walk elsewhere.  Sign Edvinsson to a long term deal.  Hopefully Mazur, Wallinder and maybe Buium are ready for a taste of the NHL.  Maybe this upcoming draft we get a really good player that could be in the mix.  Pray one of Karpizov, Connor, Necas, Eichel, or Kempe hits free agency especially if we don't sign Mikko Rantanen last offseason.  Sign a defender or two to ~2 year deals, hopefully with a more emphasis on playing defense. Make Cossa the starter.

good points.

i'm pretty sure this is in line with the team's thinking and in one of prashanth's recent posts.  and he's not been a fan of yzerman's free agent moves, but he wrote that the timeline is now seider and raymond's primes.  that starts - theoretically - in a year or two.  

exactly when these contracts begin to expire.  

to give yzerman the benefit of the doubt, those deals were signed (and larkin extended rather than traded ) so that the next core - raymond, seider, edvinsson, etc - would have veterans in the lockeroom and on the ice.  so they wouldnt get physically mauled like they were getting in 2019-2020.  so they wouldnt be buffalo, winning the prospect rankings every year and finishing in last.

i get as frustrated as anyone with the way this season has gone, but if you look at the BIG picture, its just another step to competing in two or three years.

the counter being what stanley always brings up - quite rightly - that they dont have a "star" and prospects dont always turn out (see some previous red wings teams "prospect rankings").  but as we have said for a while, they're likely going tobhave to buy a "star."  a couple may be available soon, or like you said, they may wait and hope a kirpizov shakes loose after next season.  i wouldnt wait.  i'd try like heck for heiskanen or ratanan this year.

we shall see.  yzerman is my childhood hero, so i'll always ultimately give him the benefit of the doubt, even while cursing this product on these boards....