Tiger337 Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/13/2025 at 7:36 PM, chasfh said: Here to remind people that over three million more people voted for Hillary for president than for Trump. Expand She ran a bad campaign She didn't campaign hard enough in some swing states and lost them. I really hope there are some new candidates with pulses next time. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted April 13 Posted April 13 (edited) On 4/13/2025 at 6:57 PM, Motown Bombers said: How much resources did the party put into Biden vs the other candidates? Put a number on it because Biden was broke heading into South Carolina and closing offices. Elizabeth Warren's people were even bringing coffins to his campaign. Expand Yeah - it's not accurate to say the the party ever anointed Biden. He did take it by winning the votes, not the party pols. You can argue Hillary was a different story - the SuperDelegate setup was going to make it hard for anyone else even if she hadn't finally outrun Bernie in the primaries. To say she wasn't an inside choice because she won the primaries when no-one other than an outsider like Bernie was willing to run against her also misses the reality. And in 2024 was just a total screw up looked at in term of nominating process. Edited April 13 by gehringer_2 Quote
chasfh Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/13/2025 at 7:48 PM, Tiger337 said: She ran a bad campaign She didn't campaign hard enough in some swing states and lost them. I really hope there are some new candidates with pulses next time. Expand What was horrible was not Hillary as a candidate. What was horrible is a system that allows the guys with the second most votes to win the election. I know, that idea is already baked in and Hillary should have campaigned around it. But if the kind of hindsight that allows us the luxury of clubbing Hillary nine years after the fact truly is 20/20, then it behooves us to remember what the election looked like it was going to be just a couple days prior to Election Day 2016: Point being, all the way up to Election Day itself, it looked like everything was going her way, and everybody was surprised and shocked by the outcome. So please let's not pretend as though we could all see it coming throughout the entire campaign. Nobody did. Not even the Trump people. Remember? Quote
Motown Bombers Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/13/2025 at 8:00 PM, gehringer_2 said: Yeah - it's not accurate to say the the party ever anointed Biden. He did take it by winning the votes, not the party pols. You can argue Hillary was a different story - the SuperDelegate setup was going to make it hard for anyone else even if she hadn't finally outrun Bernie in the primaries. To say she wasn't an inside choice because she won the primaries when no-one other than an outsider like Bernie was willing to run against her also misses the reality. And in 2024 was just a total screw up looked at in term of nominating process. Expand Martin O'Malley ran in the 2016 primary and was at one time considered a serious contender. "Finally outrun Bernie" by leading Sanders from the beginning. He simply wouldn't go away. By the way, Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. He makes that clear. He is only a Democrat when he wants to be president. He then loses, says it's rigged, and promptly leaves the party. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/13/2025 at 8:13 PM, chasfh said: What was horrible was not Hillary as a candidate. What was horrible is a system that allows the guys with the second most votes to win the election. I know, that idea is already baked in and Hillary should have campaigned around it. But if the kind of hindsight that allows us the luxury of clubbing Hillary nine years after the fact truly is 20/20, then it behooves us to remember what the election looked like it was going to be just a couple days prior to Election Day 2016: Point being, all the way up to Election Day itself, it looked like everything was going her way, and everybody was surprised and shocked by the outcome. So please let's not pretend as though we could all see it coming throughout the entire campaign. Nobody did. Not even the Trump people. Remember? Expand what difference does it make that people didn't see it coming? In the end Trump still won the votes he needed and she didn't. 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/13/2025 at 8:15 PM, Motown Bombers said: He simply wouldn't go away Expand I think the campaign finance rules must make campaigning for the sake of campaigning too attractive. Quote
chasfh Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/13/2025 at 8:16 PM, gehringer_2 said: what difference does it make that people didn't see it coming? In the end Trump still won the votes he needed and she didn't. Expand Yes, that's true in and of itself, and of course I can't reasonably not agree with that. And necessary hard lessons were definitely learned, or at least beginning to be learned. But that assessment also works against the cathartic slathering on of blame onto Hillary that she was obviously—obviously!—a horrible candidate. That's one of the best examples of convenient 20/20 hindsight I can muster, and that's not a slam on anyone in particular, because there's no one person alone in doing this. A lot of people, perhaps most posters here, have been engaging in the very same thing ever since, and it has never set right with me, because I can't recall any of those same posters sounding any alarm bells in 2016 about the obvious! Trump victory that was going to happen. Quote
Kacie Posted April 13 Posted April 13 There's also that little election interference thing. 2 1 Quote
CMRivdogs Posted April 14 Posted April 14 How many others on both sides of the aisle have done this. They need the Martha Stewart treatment and banned from holding office and voting again 1 Quote
CMRivdogs Posted April 17 Posted April 17 https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2025/apr/16/protesters-arrested-shocked-with-stun-guns-at-us-rep-marjorie-taylor-greenes-town-hall/ Quote Three people were arrested, two of them shocked with a stun gun and about six people were escorted out of the building as Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene held a town hall in Acworth on Tuesday. “We aren’t going to be intimidated by funded Democrats that want to come in and scream and yell,” Greene said after the meeting at the Acworth Community Center in Cobb County. “A town hall is information for our constituents, and this is not a political rally, this is not a campaign rally, and town halls are extremely important. I’m glad they got thrown out. That’s exactly what I wanted to see happen.” The first arrest came just after the town hall began when one man loudly booed Greene and was dragged into the hallway by police and shocked with a stun gun at least twice. Shortly after he was taken away, police could be seen scuffling with another man in the crowd, eventually using the stun gun on him as well. A woman was arrested near the end of the event after she shouted profanities at Greene while she was on the stage. The crowd at Greene’s town hall was mostly friendly, but some constituents could be heard scoffing or otherwise expressing their unhappiness — several interrupted the event by shouting or, in one case, unfurling a sign reading “Jail 4 Inside Traders.” Expand 1 Quote
romad1 Posted April 17 Posted April 17 On 4/17/2025 at 4:51 PM, CMRivdogs said: https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2025/apr/16/protesters-arrested-shocked-with-stun-guns-at-us-rep-marjorie-taylor-greenes-town-hall/ Expand She is gonna meet a hard end. Quote
CMRivdogs Posted April 17 Posted April 17 On 4/17/2025 at 5:28 PM, romad1 said: She is gonna meet a hard end. Expand While I don't disagree about MTG. I was a bit more concerned about Trumpublican Storm Troopers tasering anyone who dares to object at Town Hall "meetings" These are the same folks applauding convicted felons from 1/6 getting off scott free (and celebrated) while applauding deportments without even a mock trial. 1 3 Quote
Motown Bombers Posted April 18 Posted April 18 For unemployment I have to do this whole charade of registering with MI WORKS, and wouldn't you know, the MI WORKS office is in the same building as John James office. I decided to swing by and of course the lazy backbencher closed his office today. 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted Monday at 02:55 AM Posted Monday at 02:55 AM On 4/20/2025 at 9:26 PM, Motown Bombers said: Expand People like Hogg are just disinterested in building a governing coalition. US politics are so screwed. On the GOP side you have a party that doesn't care about right vs wrong at all - only winning. On the DEM side you have people who care so much about being right it excludes any possibility of actually building anything that looks like a winning coalition. Pretty clear why one side is winning more elections. 1 2 Quote
pfife Posted Monday at 08:51 AM Posted Monday at 08:51 AM Hogg should work with democrats to keep Speaker mike as speaker...... again Quote
Motown Bombers Posted Monday at 01:04 PM Posted Monday at 01:04 PM On 4/21/2025 at 2:55 AM, gehringer_2 said: People like Hogg are just disinterested in building a governing coalition. US politics are so screwed. On the GOP side you have a party that doesn't care about right vs wrong at all - only winning. On the DEM side you have people who care so much about being right it excludes any possibility of actually building anything that looks like a winning coalition. Pretty clear why one side is winning more elections. Expand People like Hogg believe 100%if nothing is better than 70% of something because you’re standing on your alleged principles. Biden gave them 70%, they didn’t want it, and now we have backslid so far it will take a generation or two just to get back to where we were. They have this asinine belief that if you lose elections you’ll move to the left. The next Dem president will be to the right of Biden. Quote
chasfh Posted Monday at 01:23 PM Posted Monday at 01:23 PM On 4/21/2025 at 1:04 PM, Motown Bombers said: People like Hogg believe 100%if nothing is better than 70% of something because you’re standing on your alleged principles. Biden gave them 70%, they didn’t want it, and now we have backslid so far it will take a generation or two just to get back to where we were. They have this asinine belief that if you lose elections you’ll move to the left. The next Dem president will be to the right of Biden. Expand We are also still (back?) at the point where no one but a (1) white (2) cis (3) “Christian” (4) man is electable as president. Anyone the Democrats put up who doesn’t satisfy all four of these attributes will lost critical votes on the margin. It’s not the way it should be, but I believe there’s a good chance that’s the way it is now, and in 2028 (assuming free and fair elections). Quote
Motown Bombers Posted Monday at 01:50 PM Posted Monday at 01:50 PM On 4/21/2025 at 1:23 PM, chasfh said: We are also still (back?) at the point where no one but a (1) white (2) cis (3) “Christian” (4) man is electable as president. Anyone the Democrats put up who doesn’t satisfy all four of these attributes will lost critical votes on the margin. It’s not the way it should be, but I believe there’s a good chance that’s the way it is now, and in 2028 (assuming free and fair elections). Expand I’m not convinced. Obama is still the most popular democrat. Hillary and Harris were out in tough situations. Hillary did win the popular vote and Harris got 75 million votes. Quote
Tiger337 Posted Monday at 02:14 PM Posted Monday at 02:14 PM On 4/21/2025 at 1:50 PM, Motown Bombers said: I’m not convinced. Obama is still the most popular democrat. Hillary and Harris were out in tough situations. Hillary did win the popular vote and Harris got 75 million votes. Expand Harris was in a tough situation, but Clinton's situation was no more difficult than you average candidate. I get tired of hearing about numbers of votes in the last two elections. You can't compare the last two elections to past elections because there is much easier access to voting now. Quote
Motown Bombers Posted Monday at 02:50 PM Posted Monday at 02:50 PM On 4/21/2025 at 2:14 PM, Tiger337 said: Harris was in a tough situation, but Clinton's situation was no more difficult than you average candidate. I get tired of hearing about numbers of votes in the last two elections. You can't compare the last two elections to past elections because there is much easier access to voting now. Expand The same party hasn't won three straight terms since HW Bush won in 88. Hillary wasn't going up against an unknown politically with Russia putting their thumb on the scale. She still beat him by 3 million votes. In some states, voting was harder in 2024 than 2020 so I disagree about voting being easier. Overall turnout was down in 2024. Quote
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