Trumps Presidency 2025

[Tigerbomb13]

Since AI is going to take over our lives anyway, might as well have fun with it. 

[mtutiger]

28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

She is triangulating. The Dems have to come to terms with the fact that a lot of people voted for Trump and if you start out by invalidating the opinion of all those people, you create a hole for yourself you don't need to.

I think you can triangulate without doing... that

Edited Thursday at 01:16 AM by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

Amateur hour stuff

Edited Thursday at 01:22 AM by mtutiger

[chasfh]

33 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

She is triangulating. The Dems have to come to terms with the fact that a lot of people voted for Trump and if you start out by invalidating the opinion of all those people, you create a hole for yourself you don't need to.

I’m not too worried about Gretchen going MAGA.

[chasfh]

A little more color around the situation: 

 

[chasfh]

She sure doesn't look very glad-handy in the picture.

[oblong]

I’m not bothered at all by what Whitmer did today.  She’s doing her job for her constituents. Our state is particularly affected due to the autos.  Just like I wasn’t bothered when Chris Christie was with a Obama right before the 2012 election.  Republicans bashed him for it.  

[Motown Bombers]

My issue is the order is not good for Michigan, and she let herself get played by Trump. This is in stark contrast to how she handled Trump during COVID. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

9 hours ago, oblong said:

I’m not bothered at all by what Whitmer did today.  She’s doing her job for her constituents. Our state is particularly affected due to the autos.  Just like I wasn’t bothered when Chris Christie was with a Obama right before the 2012 election.  Republicans bashed him for it.  

Barack Obama ain't a fascist. Governors like JB Pritzker and Tim Walz have been fighting back hard against Trump, Whitmer is capitulating so she can try to get votes for her 2028 Presidential run in a state Trump won twice. She's no better than a John Fetterman at this point. 

[mtutiger]

53 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Barack Obama ain't a fascist. Governors like JB Pritzker and Tim Walz have been fighting back hard against Trump, Whitmer is capitulating so she can try to get votes for her 2028 Presidential run in a state Trump won twice. She's no better than a John Fetterman at this point. 

Just to flesh out my thoughts a little more on my response to G2 above, Democratic voters themselves matter a lot in being a viable Presidential contender. And I reject the idea that the only way that a Democratic candidate can make themselves an appealing alternative, especially in a moment like this where Trump has seen his approval rating go underwater over the course of the first 80 days of his Presidency, is to sound equivocating and to put themselves in the position that she found herself today.

At the very least, Whitmer is misreading the moment here quite a bit.... Tater and I approach politics from different places ideologically, but this moment is less about ideology and more about the willingness to push back and fight or run for cover. It's been clarifying to see how some prospective candidates have handled things (Pritzker, Walz, even Shapiro) have handled things versus other prospective candidates (Newsom, Whitmer)

I'll leave the debate about whether it was helpful to Michiganders or not to people who actually live in Michigan, I don't have a dog in that right. But in regards to 2028, to the extent that she's running (she may not be), I don't know that having this sort of fundamental disconnect with the base of the party exudes strength as a candidate. As someone who will vote in the D primary in 2028, it makes me question her political instincts.

Edited Thursday at 01:13 PM by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Just to flesh out my thoughts a little more on my response to G2 above, Democratic voters themselves matter a lot in being a viable Presidential contender. And I reject the idea that the only way that a Democratic candidate can make themselves an appealing alternative, especially in a moment like this where Trump has seen his approval rating go underwater over the course of the first 80 days of his Presidency, is to sound equivocating and to put themselves in the position that she found herself today.

At the very least, Whitmer is misreading the moment here quite a bit.... Tater and I approach politics from different places ideologically, but this moment is less about ideology and more about the willingness to push back and fight or run for cover. 

I'll leave the debate about whether it was helpful to Michiganders or not to people who actually live in Michigan, I don't have a dog in that right. But in regards to 2028, to the extent that she's running (she may not be), I don't know that having this sort of fundamental disconnect with the base of the party exudes strength as a candidate. As someone who will vote in the D primary in 2028, it makes me question her political instincts.

Maybe. But the Dems need to do more than win whisker narrow elections - they need to rebuild a coalition that is going to include a lot of the people  - like the ones that carried Trump in our own state just last year. People may lose enthusiasm for Trump as he flails around this time just like last time but if all you do is run around yelling 'Trump is an idiot' how do your get past the implication to his voters that they are idiots, which doesn't get you anywhere- hasn't gotten the Dems anywhere since 2015 with Obama at the Correspondents dinner.

None of which may really matter because the Dems still dont't have an economic message to the working class that appeals to them.

Edited Thursday at 01:23 PM by gehringer_2

[romad1]

Whitmer is trying to prevent a man-made catastrophe in the state.  She has a responsibility to represent her people.  I agree she should show backbone and not be part of unconstitutional displays like the Executive Order but, the mad king aspect is part and parcel of the catastrophe she is trying to avoid.  

I wouldn't want her groveling just as I wouldn't want her playing footsie with the PRC over the battery plant.  She was trying to serve her citizens.   

I think she has to navigate the news about this carefully so she isn't identified as some sort of Dem ally of the mad king. 

[romad1]

She was trying to prevent Selfridge from closing!  That would be an enormous hit to the state economy. 

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Maybe. But the Dems need to do more than win whisker narrow elections - they need to rebuild a coalition that is going to include a lot of the people  - like the ones that carried Trump in our own state just last year....

None of which may really matter because the Dems still dont't have an economic message to the working class that appeals to them.

I think you just answered your own question.... focusing on the bolded is going to be far more effective to the cause than going through optical pandering exercises that both alienate your own base while are ineffective at turning any voters.

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

People may lose enthusiasm for Trump as he flails around this time just like last time but if all you do is run around yelling 'Trump is an idiot' how do your get past the implication to his voters that they are idiots, which doesn't get you anywhere- hasn't gotten the Dems anywhere since 2015 with Obama at the Correspondents dinner.

I think you can provide substantive solutions to people's problems while pushing back on Donald Trump directly. And I reject this idea that the people actually pushing back on Trump in this moment are effectively yelling 'Trump is an idiot... if you listen to JB Pritzker or Tim Walz speak, there's a lot of actual substance about the practical policy consequences of the decisions he is making for instance.

Edited Thursday at 01:33 PM by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Whitmer is trying to prevent a man-made catastrophe in the state.  She has a responsibility to represent her people.  I agree she should show backbone and not be part of unconstitutional displays like the Executive Order but, the mad king aspect is part and parcel of the catastrophe she is trying to avoid.  

I wouldn't want her groveling just as I wouldn't want her playing footsie with the PRC over the battery plant.  She was trying to serve her citizens.   

I think she has to navigate the news about this carefully so she isn't identified as some sort of Dem ally of the mad king. 

I will concede she was put in a really tough spot here.... getting put into that position in the Oval Office is the main issue I have, and from what I read, that was preventable. There's no getting around the fact that it was a blunder, and from the expression on her face, she knew it.

Edited Thursday at 01:35 PM by mtutiger

[romad1]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

I will concede she was put in a really tough spot here.... getting put into that position in the Oval Office is the main issue I have, and from what I read, that was preventable. There's no getting around the fact that it was a blunder, and from the expression on her face, she knew it.

Yes, a blunder.  The fact is that with the mad king the best outcome is benign neglect not active hostility.  

[mtutiger]

Just now, romad1 said:

Yes, a blunder.  The fact is that with the mad king the best outcome is benign neglect not active hostility.  

I don't know that I agree totally with this, FWIW.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't know that I agree totally with this, FWIW.

I can see the argument for a demonstrative fight with Trump and seeing Selfridge close and US/Canada tariffs go to bizonkers levels.  It would help her with her 2028 Presidential run.  

 

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, romad1 said:

I can see the argument for a demonstrative fight with Trump and seeing Selfridge close and US/Canada tariffs go to bizonkers levels.  It would help her with her 2028 Presidential run.  

 

I just think a stronger response to Trump is the best way for a Governor to stand up for their states interest in this case.... there's no appeasing this guy, after all these years you'd think people would understand that.

[CMRivdogs]

12 hours ago, chasfh said:

She sure doesn't look very glad-handy in the picture.

Yep, she has that "I need to behave myself or I'll be per entry vacationing in Venezuela" vibe going

[mtutiger]

This is what was wild about yesterday... The tariffs went from 'catastrophically bad' to 'extremely bad', yet markets + media were acting like everything was going back to square one.

Just bonkers ****

[Hongbit]

I don’t think Selfridge closing was ever on the table.  

The Trump model is to reward his side and punish those who oppose him.   He won this state.  Like it or not, we are red.   We are caught in the crossfire of the tariffs both with automative and being a neighbor to Canada. We’ve already taken more of the brunt than many other states with his trade war.    Closing Selfridge would be another huge stick to the state .  He doesn’t typically do that to states that voted with him.

If it were to happen,  It hurts the credibility of Republicans here like John James and Mike Rogers just as much and maybe even more than Gretch.   

Edited Thursday at 02:22 PM by Hongbit

[oblong]

I'm not clear what Gretchan did wrong.

[romad1]

22 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t think Selfridge closing was ever on the table.  

The Trump model is to reward his side and punish those who oppose him.   He won this state.  Like it or not, we are red.   We are caught in the crossfire of the tariffs both with automative and being a neighbor to Canada. We’ve already taken more of the brunt than many other states with his trade war.    Closing Selfridge would be another huge stick to the state .  He doesn’t typically do that to states that voted with him.

If it were to happen,  It hurts the credibility of Republicans here like John James and Mike Rogers just as much and maybe even more than Gretch.   

You have the luxury of your well-reasoned opinion.  She doesn't. 

[Hongbit]

23 minutes ago, oblong said:

I'm not clear what Gretchan did wrong.

She bent the knee.  She showed up and kissed the ring of the dictator.