gehringer_2 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Screwball said: I don't know? Someone who understands ballistics (internal and external) might have a pretty good grasp on physics. I'll let myself out. Apropos of this but otherwise unrelated, many years ago sitting on a jury I was amused by a prosecution detective who tried to snow a college town jury with some very inventive ballistics physics that gave the academics that he had the bad fortune to have on the jury a good laugh back in the jury room. Always know your audience! Edited February 11 by gehringer_2 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 3 minutes ago, Screwball said: I don't know? Someone who understands ballistics (internal and external) might have a pretty good grasp on physics. I'll let myself out. I am sure some of them would do just fine if they applied themselves to STEM. I have been teaching long enough to know that lots of different kinds of people can learn STEM. I also know that the majority of people don't like STEM which is a problem. If I am lookng for STEM talent, I am looking for people that are interested in doing it. Most NRA types I have encountered are not looking to do nerdy STEM jobs. Quote
Screwball Posted February 11 Posted February 11 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am sure some of them would do just fine if they applied themselves to STEM. I have been teaching long enough to know that lots of different kinds of people can learn STEM. I also know that the majority of people don't like STEM which is a problem. If I am lookng for STEM talent, I am looking for people that are interested in doing it. Most NRA types I have encountered are not looking to do nerdy STEM jobs. I'm in my sixth year of teaching (STEM class) after retirement. Once I get through this semester I'm done and gone. It has progressively gotten worse over that time. Students and staff. I renamed academia to acadummia a few years ago. They must be a subsidiary of corporate America and the world of Office Space and Dilbert, and maybe worse. Your ass is here at school because you sucked as an engineer, accountant, or administrator. It sure ain't for the money. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am sure some of them would do just fine if they applied themselves to STEM. I have been teaching long enough to know that lots of different kinds of people can learn STEM. I also know that the majority of people don't like STEM which is a problem. If I am lookng for STEM talent, I am looking for people that are interested in doing it. Most NRA types I have encountered are not looking to do nerdy STEM jobs. There are a lot of theories one could spin. One that appeals to me is that with all the noise and distraction and entertainment, fewer students have the habit of really being able to concentrate for the extended amount of time it takes to wrap your head around and understand a complex math/engineering/programming problem. So the net result is that too many that do end up in STEM are the introverts because they never liked the noisy distracting stuff anyway because they always had something they were concentrating on - so in the end they are the ones that have those concentration skills. But then the rest of the kids see that most of the STEM kids are not the cool kids and the whole thing just re-enforces. I think for a lot of those kids, it's not until they can get into a big engineering/science environment like a major university where they are members of big socially independent cohort that has its own social reward system that they finally get to do what they like and be the cool kids too. Edited February 11 by gehringer_2 Quote
Tiger337 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 5 minutes ago, Screwball said: I'm in my sixth year of teaching (STEM class) after retirement. Once I get through this semester I'm done and gone. It has progressively gotten worse over that time. Students and staff. I renamed academia to acadummia a few years ago. They must be a subsidiary of corporate America and the world of Office Space and Dilbert, and maybe worse. Your ass is here at school because you sucked as an engineer, accountant, or administrator. It sure ain't for the money. I have been in environments where students and staff are not good at STEM. In my current academic environment, most are highly motivated to learn STEM. I don't agree that people in academic environments are there because they failed elsewhere. In the world of research (my world), many chose academia over private because it's very difficult to do honest research in private industry which is mostly driven by profit. Not all academic research is unbiased, but yout got a much better chance there. 1 Quote
pfife Posted February 11 Posted February 11 I dont think its difficult to do honest research in private companies. The truth as discovered by rigorous research methods is valuable to businesses too. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: it's very difficult to do honest research in private industry which is mostly driven by profit. This is a very good point. I don't actually think it's as bad for people doing basic research for industry, I think the people that feel this the most are the R&D research and engineering types who run into the conflict that in most corporations everyone except those lucky enough to be in long term basic research ultimately report to sales. And if you are a data/truth driven worker you find out pretty fast that truth is about the first thing that goes down the drain when there's a customer to be sold. After a while that gets ....fatiguing....to deal with. Sure did for me. Edited February 11 by gehringer_2 Quote
Tiger337 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 5 minutes ago, pfife said: I dont think its difficult to do honest research in private companies. The truth as discovered by rigorous research methods is valuable to businesses too. I think it depends on the field. Quote
Tiger337 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: This is a very good point. I don't actually think it's as bad for people doing basic research for industry, I think the people that feel this the most are the R&D research and engineering types who run into the conflict that in most corporations everyone except those lucky enough to be in long term basic research ultimately report to sales. And if you are a data/truth driven worker you find out pretty fast that truth is about the first thing that goes down the drain when there's a customer to be sold. After a while that gets ....fatiguing....to deal with. Sure did for me. I found that to be true in govt work too! Quote
ewsieg Posted February 11 Posted February 11 I saw a video of Trump signing something over the Gulf of America, effectively making history, as he went to the Superbowl yesterday. That's it, i'm on board now. He's out there doing historical first, ain't no way that won't have a positive outcome on inflation. Quote
pfife Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Ive done research at university institute that was tip top in field, mid size companies, and one of the largest most famous companies on the planet. My experience is mid size company > huge company > university. University had way way more counterproductive office politics and turf wars that all impacted ability to do research. Just my experience Quote
pfife Posted February 11 Posted February 11 I'm also extremely skeptical of academic peer view. I had that work delegated to me as a grad student. It's not supposed to be that way. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 7 minutes ago, pfife said: Ive done research at university institute that was tip top in field, mid size companies, and one of the largest most famous companies on the planet. My experience is mid size company > huge company > university. University had way way more counterproductive office politics and turf wars that all impacted ability to do research. Just my experience I suppose in the end leadership always makes a difference. There are no lack of complaints at any University about academic politics etc., but where ever the problems were in the Engin School, I wasn't near them. We had a long tenured and much loved dean over most of my time there. They are now on the 2nd since he retired so I suppose things could change at any time! And part of that may just be the way incoming funds are shared/not shared at a college. Different schools do it in different ways - some of which lead to more or less collegiality! The performance pressure is certainly real for tenure track staff, and it doesn't get much better with tenure because there is still an expectation to take on grad students and bring in the money to support them. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 2 minutes ago, pfife said: I'm also extremely skeptical of academic peer view. I had that work delegated to me as a grad student. It's not supposed to be that way. peer review is a system in trouble writ large. I don't know what the answer it but it doesn't work anymore. Of course, in the technical sense, I'm not sure a good grad student might not be be a better reviewer than a tenured greybeard who has mostly been a research CEO for decades. Of course not necessarily fair to the grad students that get tasked, but maybe not the biggest reason the review process is in trouble in terms of not weeding out bad research. Quote
Tiger337 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) 41 minutes ago, pfife said: Ive done research at university institute that was tip top in field, mid size companies, and one of the largest most famous companies on the planet. My experience is mid size company > huge company > university. University had way way more counterproductive office politics and turf wars that all impacted ability to do research. Just my experience If government and academic research get destroyed by the NIH budget cuts, I may find out more about how private industry research works. Edited February 11 by Tiger337 1 Quote
pfife Posted February 11 Posted February 11 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: If government and academic research get destroyed by the NIH budget cuts, I may find out more about how private industry research works. I hope that doesn't happen, but we should converse if it does. I know some of your skillset and its valuable in the private sector for sure. 1 Quote
Tigeraholic1 Posted February 11 Author Posted February 11 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: LOL total lie.... Keep trying tho. Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Republicans spend so much time talking about how they love public safety and yet one of the first things Trump does is defund fire and police departments. Trump's federal funding freeze will impact communities that use federal grants to find firefighter, paramedic, and police officer positions. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 1 minute ago, oblong said: republicans are anti religion. Yup. What we have is a President who is in open opposition to the 'Establishment' clause, and his opposition is in support of a part of the 'Christian' church that is functioning in open opposition to their 'establisher'. Quote
CMRivdogs Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Quote Men build our churches but do not enter them, print our Bibles but do not read them, talk about God but do not believe Him, speak of Christ but do not trust Him for salvation, sing our hymns and then forget them.” — Leonard Ravenhill 1 Quote
Hongbit Posted February 11 Posted February 11 54 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: LOL total lie.... Keep trying tho. You don’t like it very much do you? This is exactly what your maga has done since 2016. Present random data from random sources and treat it like the undeniable truth. 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: LOL total lie.... Keep trying tho. I suspect it's a lie, but it's a very real scenario. If there is any kind of threat to HIS presidency, I expect he will cover it up this time. Quote
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