Lions 2022 Offseason Thread

[MichiganCardinal]

51 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

This is saying he will be released on the first day of league year.  Does that mean the same thing?

Yes.

49 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Each team is allowed 2 players that can be cut before June 1st but still carry a post June 1 destination for cap purposes.  

That’s interesting. I didn’t know this, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what they’re doing here.

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

Each team is allowed 2 players that can be cut before June 1st but still carry a post June 1 destination for cap purposes.  

Curious. What does "carry a post June 1 destination for cap purposes" mean exactly? 

[NYLion]

Also, who do you guys like in free agency? Now that Flowers is cut, the Lions have about $35m to spend I believe? Considering that they need to save some of that for their draft picks, I see one potential big splash move.

If I was to pick one, it would be Marcus Williams. An elite 25 year old safety who is familiar with Glenn and I think it's fairly realistic. If possible, I'd love to get Allen Robinson as well on a hometown discount but don't think that's likely.

[Hongbit]

9 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Curious. What does "carry a post June 1 destination for cap purposes" mean exactly? 

It means that all the benefit of cutting someone post June 1 (usually more cap savings than pre June 1) but don’t have to wait.   It’s beneficial to the player as well who doesn’t have to wait in limbo while free agency is going on.  
 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Hongbit

[Hongbit]

I would assume they will be using the post June 1 designation on Flowers. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Hongbit

[buddha]

Just now, Hongbit said:

It means that all the benefit of cutting someone post June 1 (usually more cap savings than pre June 1) but don’t have to wait.   It’s beneficial to the player as well who doesn’t have to wait in limbo while free agency is going on.  

cutting him NOW is beneficial to the player, right?  i read this as the lions doing flowers a solid.

if they dont designate him a post june 1 cut then his cap hit is split between this year and next year, if he is a post june 1 cut it all goes to next year.  right?  i could have that wrong.

if so, and theyre taking more of the cap hit this year, maybe it indicates the lions are going to spend more next year when flowers will be off the books and the peice for cutting goff is lower?  not sure.

[NYLion]

6 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It means that all the benefit of cutting someone post June 1 (usually more cap savings than pre June 1) but don’t have to wait.   It’s beneficial to the player as well who doesn’t have to wait in limbo while free agency is going on.  
 

I had a feeling that's what you meant. So essentially the team gets the cap space for free agency (the added cap space as if it's a post June 1st cut) and the player gets to choose his free agency destination? How can a team pull this off though getting the benefit of a post June 1st cut by announcing the cut pre June 1st?

Edited March 10, 2022 by NYLion

[4hzglory]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

cutting him NOW is beneficial to the player, right?  i read this as the lions doing flowers a solid.

if they dont designate him a post june 1 cut then his cap hit is split between this year and next year, if he is a post june 1 cut it all goes to next year.  right?  i could have that wrong.

if so, and theyre taking more of the cap hit this year, maybe it indicates the lions are going to spend more next year when flowers will be off the books and the peice for cutting goff is lower?  not sure.

If they don't designate him it actually means 100% of dead money is this year.  If they do post June 1, it is split between this year and next.  

 

Only thing about the post June 1 is they don't get the cap relief until then per HongBit's post

[Hongbit]

Each contract is structured different but there are times when it makes sense to wait and others where it doesn’t.   Also the balance between how teams want to spread out dead money and cap space is always a dance that changes form year to year.    It’s almost always better for the player since they become a FA before the start of free agency rather than having to wait until June 1 when teams have already spent a big portion of their budget.     

[NYLion]

3 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

 

 

Only thing about the post June 1 is they don't get the cap relief until then per HongBit's post

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Based on the tweet Hongbit posted, it would appear that they don't get the post June 1st designation benefit until AFTER June 1st so less money to spend on free agency this season. I'm not sure what that benefit would be since the NFL offseason of roster adds pretty much dies off by that time.

Either way, it looks like they're loading up for next offseason.

Edited March 10, 2022 by NYLion

[Hongbit]

1 minute ago, NYLion said:

Yeah, that's why I'm trying to figure out. Based on the tweet Hongbit posted, it would appear that they don't get the post June 1st designation benefit until AFTER June 1st so less money to spend on free agency this season. I'm not sure what that benefit would be since the NFL offseason of roster adds pretty much dies off by that time.

Either way, it looks like they're loading up for next offseason.

That post June 1 money will be valuable for contracts of players they may want to extend.    Jonah Jackson ot possibly Hock come to mind.  There also will be some nice players that become available after June 1.    itt really depends on how the team feels about it’s available cap space for the start of FA.  I think they have enough to sign who they want without needed the Flowers money but maybe not.  

[NYLion]

5 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

That post June 1 money will be valuable for contracts of players they may want to extend.    Jonah Jackson ot possibly Hock come to mind.  There also will be some nice players that become available after June 1.    itt really depends on how the team feels about it’s available cap space for the start of FA.  I think they have enough to sign who they want without needed the Flowers money but maybe not.  

That's true, the difference in money available immediately doesn't seem too significant.

Either way, this was the right move. I was getting a little concerned that they might not cut him and give it one more shot with him to see if he can stay healthy. This is best for both parties.

[buddha]

bobby wagner and marcus williams seem like pipe dreams.  people talk about aaron glenn and i get that, but glenn is going to be a head coach somewhere else next year most likely.  i suspect williams will sign with whatever team breaks the bank for him.  do we want the lions to break the bank this year?

 

[NYLion]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

bobby wagner and marcus williams seem like pipe dreams.  people talk about aaron glenn and i get that, but glenn is going to be a head coach somewhere else next year most likely.  i suspect williams will sign with whatever team breaks the bank for him.  do we want the lions to break the bank this year?

 

For Williams? Why not? He's only 25, he'll be a part of this young core for a long time. Then again, Flowers wasn't much older than that when he signed so who knows.

[buddha]

Just now, NYLion said:

For Williams? Why not? He's only 25, he'll be a part of this young core for a long time. Then again, Flowers wasn't much older than that when he signed so who knows.

my only reservation on williams is that he plays safety.  not a premium position.  but like you say, he's a good player and he's young.  makes me think he'll have a lot of suitors.

[buddha]

bears allegedly about to trade khalil mack to the chargers...

[NYLion]

59 minutes ago, buddha said:

my only reservation on williams is that he plays safety.  not a premium position.  but like you say, he's a good player and he's young.  makes me think he'll have a lot of suitors.

Not a premium position but the Lions are loading up on premium positions in the draft with Sewell in the last draft and likely a DE in this draft with the first pick so if you have that anchor on the line and at safety, this defense could be completely transformed going into next season especially if they can find a capable LB.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Jim Costa from 97.1 just tweeted this out. I'm guessing it's merely a joke on his part.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[RedRamage]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:13 PM, buddha said:

if you only knew what athletes did, you wouldnt want any of them on your team.  lol.

Not that I think athletes are saints... I mean give a 20 year old millions of dollars and make 'em think they are kings of the world and I think most of them will do at least a few stupid things... But something are stupid, and somethings are pretty despicable.  I don't think I'd want someone on my team who has a pattern of repeated sexual abuse.

It's gonna be interesting... he's got 22 suits filed against him.  How many are real and how many are people just looking for a pay day?  If all the cases are dismissed, then what? He's assumed innocent until proven guilty, but I have a hard time thinking 22 women are all making it up.

Watson's lawyer has stated that some of his interactions with massage therapists did involve sexual contact but that it was consensual.  At the very least we know that Watson, on multiple occasions, fooled around with massage therapists.  At the very least we know that he has a hard time keeping it in his pants.

Looking at it from the outside... it wouldn't surprise me at all if Watson tried to coerce a number of therapists into "happy endings" and probably didn't take the first 'no' for an answer.  I'm not saying he straight up rape anyone... I don't think anyone is accusing him of that.  But I suspect he probably did put some pressure on them both verbally and though "accidental" touches.

All this said, according to his wikipage there are "18 professional massage therapists have since expressed support of his character, saying that the allegations contradict their experiences with Watson."

[RedRamage]

16 hours ago, buddha said:

bears allegedly about to trade khalil mack to the chargers...

I wouldn't mind him not being in the division anymore.  What the chargers offering?  They picks next century? Do you think that maybe the Chargers will just keep trading away future picks and then just fold up and quit?  Can a team declare talent bankruptcy and just not have to pay off their trades?

[Dan Gilmore]

My understanding was it was a second and a sixth. Pretty cheap really, especially compared to what Chicago gave up to get him.

[buddha]

22 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I wouldn't mind him not being in the division anymore.  What the chargers offering?  They picks next century? Do you think that maybe the Chargers will just keep trading away future picks and then just fold up and quit?  Can a team declare talent bankruptcy and just not have to pay off their trades?

bears get a second this year and a sixth in 2023.  chargers eat the whole contract, which is massive.

bears went for it while they were on trubisky's rookie deal.  it got them to 13-3, a division title, and a double doink away from the nfc title game.  but pace gutted that team by constantly trading draft picks and trusting matt nagy (and andy dalton, and nick foles, and mike glennon...paying each of them a lot of money).

[buddha]

27 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Not that I think athletes are saints... I mean give a 20 year old millions of dollars and make 'em think they are kings of the world and I think most of them will do at least a few stupid things... But something are stupid, and somethings are pretty despicable.  I don't think I'd want someone on my team who has a pattern of repeated sexual abuse.

It's gonna be interesting... he's got 22 suits filed against him.  How many are real and how many are people just looking for a pay day?  If all the cases are dismissed, then what? He's assumed innocent until proven guilty, but I have a hard time thinking 22 women are all making it up.

Watson's lawyer has stated that some of his interactions with massage therapists did involve sexual contact but that it was consensual.  At the very least we know that Watson, on multiple occasions, fooled around with massage therapists.  At the very least we know that he has a hard time keeping it in his pants.

Looking at it from the outside... it wouldn't surprise me at all if Watson tried to coerce a number of therapists into "happy endings" and probably didn't take the first 'no' for an answer.  I'm not saying he straight up rape anyone... I don't think anyone is accusing him of that.  But I suspect he probably did put some pressure on them both verbally and though "accidental" touches.

All this said, according to his wikipage there are "18 professional massage therapists have since expressed support of his character, saying that the allegations contradict their experiences with Watson."

ive been in the legal business for a long time, and if its one thing i can assure you, its that when people smell a pay day, the come from everywhere to get it.

[Motown Bombers]

Mack isn't the same player the Bears first traded for so I'm not surprised the return was less. Mack hasn't posted double digit sacks since 2018. His contract is only going to pay him more each year but the Chargers at least have an out. He's 31 years old. Seems like a fair deal for both sides. 

[Stanley70]

The Lions now have 36 million in cap space before free agency, which is about 7th overall. The draft should account for about 15 million. They should able to land 1 big fish and leave enough to fill a number of other holes, of which there is a larger number.

The rumor at the combine, before the Reynolds signing, was that the Lions were looking at a top WR. The defense is the area that really needs help but i like the idea of getting Goff some pieces to work with and building his value.