2025 Detroit Tigers Spring Training

[Sports_Freak]

34 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Torres is only signed for 1 year.

If Tork perks back up... and he shows that he's improved in the field... He may be back at 1B full-time in 2026, Torres gone to a big contract, Keith back at 2B...

But I'm just guessing.

And there are a lot of moving (and unproven) parts as well...

But we have several 2nd base prospects. Keith needs to play, since we signed him to a long term contrsct.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

But we have several 2nd base prospects. Keith needs to play, since we signed him to a long term contrsct.

Of course that contract also makes him a very attractive trade chip if some of them surpass him as well. Love your players, but never too much!

Edited March 14 by gehringer_2

[Toddwert]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Of course that contract also makes him a very attractive trade chip if some of them surpass him as well. Love your players, but never too much!

I think something like a trade has to happen unless they try keith in the OF which  hurts his value more

[Motor City Sonics]

It's funny that we move Keith to 1b because he was a below average defensive 2b.   There were only 3 second baseman worse at Defensive Runs Saved than Keith.   One of them was Gleyber Torres.

I hope Torres hits, because that move still doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.      Maybe he just needed out of NYC.   

[chasfh]

On 3/13/2025 at 12:43 PM, Edman85 said:

Agreed, but to me it suggests Jung may be the odd man out 

Vierling going down really did throw a monkey wrench into the thing, didnt it?

[chasfh]

On 3/13/2025 at 12:59 PM, papalawrence said:

I believe I heard this on the Tigers territory podcast about a month ago - that Harris expects 2 top-100 prospects to consider trading Tork. So better than the haul they got for Flaherty. I don't see any team offering that

I could see it. He’s a former 1/1 waiting to be unlocked and help a team start winning right now. I think there are any number of organizations that believe they could unlock him and would gamble with giving up uncertain futures from “prospects” for that.

[chasfh]

18 hours ago, KL2 said:

Doubt it. Only cause spring training trades are crazy rare and anyone who is moved sucks and if you get anything out of them its just a fluke (nyjer morgan anyone). 

 

Well, I certainly wouldn’t want Tork to turn into Nyjer Morgan.

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't have a problem with the Tigers moving him to first.  I just think he has less value there.  

It depends in part on how his defense at first compares with his defense at second. If he can be an average first baseman versus a minus-one-win second baseman defensively, that would probably wash out the hitting. 

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, chasfh said:

It depends in part on how his defense at first compares with his defense at second. If he can be an average first baseman versus a minus-one-win second baseman defensively, that would probably wash out the hitting. 

If he is a minus one win second baseman, then he should not be playing second base.  On a pitching centric team which will probably be in a lot of low scoring games, -1 WAR might underestimate how bad he hurts the team.  I am not sure he is that.  Based on last year, DRS says yes, but statcast says average.  

[chasfh]

36 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If he is a minus one win second baseman, then he should not be playing second base.  On a pitching centric team which will probably be in a lot of low scoring games, -1 WAR might underestimate how bad he hurts the team.  I am not sure he is that.  Based on last year, DRS says yes, but statcast says average.  

Defensive stats are notoriously inconsistent, as you know, and the default answer is not necessarily whichever stats show him to be better at the position.

Whatever analytics the Tigers use tell them that a combination of 2B Gleyber Torres and 1B Colt Keith projects to be worth more wins, taking their combined defense and Keith's reduced offensive value at first into account, than a combination of 2B Colt and 1B Spencer Torkelson would be, considering their combined defense and Colt's elevated offensive value at second. I'm willing to give the front office the chance to prove they know what they're doing in cases like these, until they demonstrate to me that they don't.

Edited March 14 by chasfh

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If he is a minus one win second baseman, then he should not be playing second base.  On a pitching centric team which will probably be in a lot of low scoring games, -1 WAR might underestimate how bad he hurts the team.  I am not sure he is that.  Based on last year, DRS says yes, but statcast says average.  

I don't know how either system weights outright misplays, but for Colt most of his errors at 2b were early in the season - he played much cleaner in the 2nd half, so if the numbers we see are averaged over the whole season, I would argue that by the time he finished the season  he was playing significantly better than his season aggregates. Hard to know exactly how much from what we have available, but of course the team has breakdowns over shorter intervals.

 

[chasfh]

Found an interesting article on mlb.com, of all places, discussing teams' player turnover from last year to this.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-teams-with-most-roster-turnover-in-2025

So many teams have made moves toward contending in 2025. But which clubs have done the most?

Let’s take a look at the teams that have changed the most since last season -- whether for better or for worse. Using FanGraphs depth charts projections through March 5, we calculated what percentage of each club’s 2025 plate appearances (for hitters) and batters faced (for pitchers) will go to players who did not appear for that team in 2024 (represented as "turnover rate" below).

Here’s the full list of turnover rates from 2024 to 2025.

1. White Sox: 42.3%
2. Angels: 36.5%
3. Red Sox: 35.6%
4. Marlins: 35.2%
5. Nationals: 34.5%
6. Cubs: 34.5%
7. Pirates: 32.7%
8. Dodgers: 32.5%
9. Reds: 31.1%
10. Astros: 30.5%
11-T. Athletics: 29.9%
11-T. Rangers: 29.9%
13. Yankees: 29.6%
14. Mets: 29.2%
15. Guardians: 27.3%
16. Rays: 25.9%
17. Brewers: 25.9%
18. Orioles: 25.6%
19. Blue Jays: 24.4%
20. Padres: 22.7%
21. Braves: 21.1%
22. Phillies: 20.3%
23. D-backs: 19.0%
24. Rockies: 18.0%
25. Giants: 17.2%
26. Tigers: 16.1%
27. Mariners: 16.0%
28. Royals: 15.9%
29. Twins: 13.9%
30. Cardinals: 10.3%

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Defensive stats are notoriously inconsistent, as you know, and the default answer is not necessarily whichever stats show him to be better at the position.

Whatever analytics the Tigers use tell them that a combination of Gleyber Torres and Colt Keith projects to be worth more wins, taking their combined defense and Keith's reduced offensive value to first into account, than Colt and Spencer Torkelson would be, considering their combined defense and Colt's elevated offensive value at second. I'm willing to give them the chance to prove they know what they're doing, until they demonstrate to me that they don't.

I didn't say they didn't know what they are doing.  They know more than any of us.  What I am saying is that if Keith is a capable defender at both positions, then he would have more value at second base.  If he is deemed incapable of playing second base, that is disappointing, not because I think they are wrong but because I was hoping he would be a solid 2B.  If he doesn't ever hit for the plus power that is generally expected of a first baseman, that would also be disappoining.  

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Defensive stats are notoriously inconsistent, as you know, and the default answer is not necessarily whichever stats show him to be better at the position.

Whatever analytics the Tigers use tell them that a combination of 2B Gleyber Torres and 1B Colt Keith projects to be worth more wins, taking their combined defense and Keith's reduced offensive value at first into account, than a combination of 2B Colt and 1B Spencer Torkelson would be, considering their combined defense and Colt's elevated offensive value at second. I'm willing to give the front office the chance to prove they know what they're doing in cases like these, until they demonstrate to me that they don't.

they are projecting - and I'm sure they would agree there is a lot of uncertainty in all of it. Things nobody knows for sure: which of the two faces of Gleyber Torres will we see this season - so far it looks like the 2nd half guy - we hope it stays that way; How good was Colt's defensive learning curve at 2b and what will it be like at 1b? How much better could he have gotten with more reps at 2b, how many reps at 1st before he's at least neutral?; What is Colts ISO going to look like thise season?; Torkelson of course a huge unknown. A lot of assumptions had to made about what we would see from him this Spring - it was completely right not to leave themselves dependent on him. So far he is probably upsetting a lot of those assumptions but who knows if it will last? What I hope for in the FO is that they make a plan that has enough options so that they can adjust to whatever actually happens that wasn't plan A. As it stands, with Vierling and Meadows out - Carpenter spends his time in the OF and having Keith, Torkelson and Torres rotate through 3 open positions is no problem at all as the season opens. From then on, performance will probably sort things out. 

Edited March 14 by gehringer_2

[Tigermojo]

With Baez playing third maybe Torres decides versatility might help his market.

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

With Baez playing third maybe Torres decides versatility might help his market.

I guess there wasn't much point in talking about Baez at 3rd until there was some inkling about whether he could hit, but obviously if javy's bat can play again, it's a no brainer to let him work out at 3rd and see what happens.

[chasfh]

58 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I didn't say they didn't know what they are doing.  They know more than any of us.  What I am saying is that if Keith is a capable defender at both positions, then he would have more value at second base.  If he is deemed incapable of playing second base, that is disappointing, not because I think they are wrong but because I was hoping he would be a solid 2B.  If he doesn't ever hit for the plus power that is generally expected of a first baseman, that would also be disappoining.  

He probably doesn't have more value at second base than Gleyber Torres does.

[chasfh]

53 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

they are projecting - and I'm sure they would agree there is a lot of uncertainty in all of it. Things nobody knows for sure: which of the two faces of Gleyber Torres will we see this season - so far it looks like the 2nd half guy - we hope it stays that way; How good was Colt's defensive learning curve at 2b and what will it be like at 1b? How much better could he have gotten with more reps at 2b, how many reps at 1st before he's at least neutral?; What is Colts ISO going to look like thise season?; Torkelson of course a huge unknown. A lot of assumptions had to made about what we would see from him this Spring - it was completely right not to leave themselves dependent on him. So far he is probably upsetting a lot of those assumptions but who knows if it will last? What I hope for in the FO is that they make a plan that has enough options so that they can adjust to whatever actually happens that wasn't plan A. As it stands, with Vierling and Meadows out - Carpenter spends his time in the OF and having Keith, Torkelson and Torres rotate through 3 open positions is no problem at all as the season opens. From then on, performance will probably sort things out. 

Yes, they're projecting. That's all anybody can do, even the professionals. I'd bet they have taken all your contingencies into account, plus several you haven't even thought of. Nothing is certain. That's why they play the games. If it fails, you can write to Scott Harris and tell him you knew it all along. sharris@tigers.com ... that should get there. 😉

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Yes, they're projecting. That's all anybody can do, even the professionals. I'd bet they have taken all your contingencies into account, plus several you haven't even thought of. Nothing is certain. That's why they play the games. If it fails, you can write to Scott Harris and tell him you knew it all along. sharris@tigers.com ... that should get there. 😉

that's the thing though - you look around the league and even at our own Tiger management over the years and you get no lack of scratch your head "why did they do that?" moments. So it's not as surprising as one might assume given the money being spent, that team managements do take a lot of strange turns. I suppose falling in too in love with your own choices drives a lot of it. A GM that can stay detached from his ego has a leg up on his competition. 

[Tigermojo]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/03/parker-meadows-ruled-out-for-opening-day.html

Baez in center?

[Tiger337]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

He probably doesn't have more value at second base than Gleyber Torres does.

I wasn't comparing him to Torres.  I am thinking about what kind of value Keith will have over the next several years.  

[gehringer_2]

54 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/03/parker-meadows-ruled-out-for-opening-day.html

Baez in center?

Petzold says Perez, he’s probably got that right. 

[4hzglory]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Petzold says Perez, he’s probably got that right. 

It also quotes Hinch saying he may try Baez in center some.  Perez is getting injections right now as well.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

It also quotes Hinch saying he may try Baez in center some.  Perez is getting injections right now as well.

Yeah  - javy was quoted in the story as saying he's always wanted to play some CF. Who knew?

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

that's the thing though - you look around the league and even at our own Tiger management over the years and you get no lack of scratch your head "why did they do that?" moments. So it's not as surprising as one might assume given the money being spent, that team managements do take a lot of strange turns. I suppose falling in too in love with your own choices drives a lot of it. A GM that can stay detached from his ego has a leg up on his competition. 

You’re already concluding that signing Torres to play second for a year and moving Colt to first because Tork has been laying a huge turd there for three years running, all while apparently ignoring instruction, was a strange turn, even before a singe game is played? I don’t agree, seems pretty level-headed to me.