2025 MLB Thread

[Sports_Freak]

30 minutes ago, chasfh said:

So, Old Friend of Ours had a rough go: six innings, ten hits plus a walk, only four strikeouts, and six runs yielded.

And he still got credit for a Quality Start. 

Why? Because only three of the six runs he gave up were earned, because he himself made an error to extend the inning and all three subsequent runs, including a bomb he gave up, went into the books as unearned.

Baseball!

And Boyd still got the win. He has a 2.54 ERA. I'm sure Cub fans are happy to have him.

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

And Boyd still got the win. He has a 2.54 ERA. I'm sure Cub fans are happy to have him.

They have been so far, but we all know his limitations, and last night was one of them.

[IdahoBert]

I wonder if the pre-DH NL to make up for the lack of offense from a pitcher had to — at the risk of sounding clichéish — play a scrappier more aggressive kind of baseball where they had to get creative and manufacture runs and they have retained that practice which with the addition of the DH has given them an edge. 

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

I wonder if the pre-DH NL to make up for the lack of offense from a pitcher had to — at the risk of sounding clichéish — play a scrappier more aggressive kind of baseball where they had to get creative and manufacture runs and they have retained that practice which with the addition of the DH has given them an edge. 

I think that's a big part of it, yes.

[chasfh]

Here's another Old Friend of Ours.

Minor-League Transactions:

• Cubs signed RHP Michael Fulmer to a minor-league contract.

[IdahoBert]

As a case in point when I think of the NL I think of Pete Rose trying to kill Ray Fosse and Juan Marichal trying to kill John Roseboro. Scrappy. 

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

They have been so far, but we all know his limitations, and last night was one of them.

Against the Dodgers? I don't judge any pitcher against them, it really isn't fair. Its like judging a pitcher against Colorado or the WSox, it's misleading. I like Boyd, he's a stand up guy with pretty good stuff. With that being said, when a pitcher makes an error that leads to unearned runs, they should be...earned. 

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Here's another Old Friend of Ours.

Minor-League Transactions:

 

• Cubs signed RHP Michael Fulmer to a minor-league contract.

   

Lol @ the Cubbies...taking our sloppy seconds. 🤣🤣

[chasfh]

43 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

when a pitcher makes an error that leads to unearned runs, they should be...earned. 

Curious why you believe this?

[Sports_Freak]

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Curious why you believe this?

It's the pitchers own fault if he makes an error that leads to runs.

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

It's the pitchers own fault if he makes an error that leads to runs.

But he's not making the error while he's pitching. He's making the error while he's fielding. Why should it count against his pitching record?

[Sports_Freak]

34 minutes ago, chasfh said:

But he's not making the error while he's pitching. He's making the error while he's fielding. Why should it count against his pitching record?

Because it was his own fault runs scored. His job is to get batters out, if he fails, those runs should be earned. I'm not saying it makes sense, i seldom do. 😅

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

Because it was his own fault runs scored. His job is to get batters out, if he fails, those runs should be earned. I'm not saying it makes sense, i seldom do. 😅

Does the hitting team earn the run when the pitcher makes an error but not when any other fielder makes an error? Is the hitting team more deserving of credit when pitchers make errors?

[Tiger337]

Maybe we should pay less attention to ERA and more attention to things like K-BB%

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Does the hitting team earn the run when the pitcher makes an error but not when any other fielder makes an error? Is the hitting team more deserving of credit when pitchers make errors?

I guess I'm not seeing the effect on the hitting team. If the pitcher is still charged with an error, the batter still doesn't get a hit. What does change is that when a run is scored after an error, the scorer now has two classes of errors to consider, pitchers' errors go in one box and other fielders' errors go in another box when it come to ruling on earned runs. 

[chasfh]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

I guess I'm not seeing the effect on the hitting team. If the pitcher is still charged with an error, the batter still doesn't get a hit. What does change is that when a run is scored after an error, the scorer now has two classes of errors to consider, pitchers' errors go in one box and other fielders' errors go in another box when it come to ruling on earned runs. 

How can an error count against the pitcher's record when it's made by a player fielding and not by a player pitching? And how can it can called an earned run against the pitcher when it is not credited as a earned hit for the hitter?

 

[gehringer_2]

>How can an error count against the pitcher's record when it's made by a player fielding and not by a player pitching?

are you asking logically or practically?  Practically you do it by changing the scoring rule. 😉 Whether it's logical is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

>And how can it can called an earned run against the pitcher when it is not credited as a earned hit for the hitter?

But there is no hard and fast connection between hits and earned runs now. The hit that scores a run isn't necessarily the play when the error occurs. That later hitter still gets his hit whether the run is ultimately ruled earned or not.  And as it is, there may or may not ever be any earned or unearned run after a hitter doesn't get his hit after reaching on an error.

I don't particularly have a dog in this issue, - I can see it either way,  but I don't  think changing it would be a big deal either.

That said, I don't see much chance it actually does change so we are just spitballing about it anyway.

Edited Thursday at 10:47 PM by gehringer_2

[monkeytargets39]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Maybe we should pay less attention to ERA and more attention to things like K-BB%

I prefer to judge pitchers solely on Win/Loss record

[VegasTiger]

This is why there shouldn't be off-days.

[casimir]

On 4/23/2025 at 4:07 PM, Tigermojo said:

Workman designated for assignment by the Cubs. If no other team claims him as a rule V, he will go back to Detroit for $50K.

Sure, why not.  Try him out in CF.

[casimir]

28 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I prefer to judge pitchers solely on Win/Loss record

You can have that.  Position players should be judged by highness of sock.

[papalawrence]

I usually judge by shoe size

[Sports_Freak]

12 hours ago, chasfh said:

So, Old Friend of Ours had a rough go: six innings, ten hits plus a walk, only four strikeouts, and six runs yielded.

And he still got credit for a Quality Start. 

Why? Because only three of the six runs he gave up were earned, because he himself made an error to extend the inning and all three subsequent runs, including a bomb he gave up, went into the books as unearned.

Baseball!

Well see another old friend coming to town with Baltimore. Gregory Soto...

[1776]

Shelby Miller got a gig with the Dbacks and his numbers to date look pretty spiffy. 

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

>How can an error count against the pitcher's record when it's made by a player fielding and not by a player pitching?

are you asking logically or practically?  Practically you do it by changing the scoring rule. 😉 Whether it's logical is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

>And how can it can called an earned run against the pitcher when it is not credited as a earned hit for the hitter?

But there is no hard and fast connection between hits and earned runs now. The hit that scores a run isn't necessarily the play when the error occurs. That later hitter still gets his hit whether the run is ultimately ruled earned or not.  And as it is, there may or may not ever be any earned or unearned run after a hitter doesn't get his hit after reaching on an error.

I don't particularly have a dog in this issue, - I can see it either way,  but I don't  think changing it would be a big deal either.

That said, I don't see much chance it actually does change so we are just spitballing about it anyway.

One of the beauties of baseball is that it is a game of logic, with double-entry bookkeeping, so charging fielder errors for one position as earned while maintaining they are unearned for the other eight positions—and also, maintaining that such runs are earned against pitchers while it is considered not earned by anyone on offense, apparently to satisfy some sort of maximal punishment directive against pitchers—would be illogical and capricious.

There is a specific rule in the book, 9.16(e), which addresses this:

An error by a pitcher is treated exactly the same as an error by any other fielder in computing earned runs.

And that’s logical because once a pitch crosses the plate, a pitcher is no longer pitching. He is fielding, and fielders’ errors can’t count against the pitcher record, because fielding does not occur int he act of pitching. They are neatly separated functions, so by rule, nothing a fielder does, short of the specific function of turning a ball into the out he is presumed to, affects the pitcher record.

This also helps explain the whole deal about why, when there is a strikeout, the putout goes to the catcher, not the pitcher. Once strike three crosses the plate, the batter’s plate appearance ends and it becomes the fielders’ responsibility to complete the out. The closest fielder is the catcher, so he gets most of the putouts on strikeouts, although sometimes the first baseman gets the putout when the ball gets away from the catcher and the batter runs toward first. This is the key reason the batter evens gets to run on strike three: once the at bat is over, the pitch becomes a live ball until the putout is made. This is also why, when the batter manages to reach first after strike three, the pitcher gets credit for the strikeout even though the actual out is not recorded—he completed his end of the bargain, so he gets credit for that. It is the fielder (usually the catcher) that failed to record the out.