buddha Posted March 23 Posted March 23 2 hours ago, lordstanley said: With the caveat that "these are professionals and are supposed to play hard and energized 100% of the time no matter what", have to start wondering what type of impact on the dressing room there has been by Yzerman deciding at three straight trade deadlines to not bring in material reinforcements. Management can stress patience and some potential long-term payoff, but players on the ice are supposed to play with urgency? Well yes, they are supposed to, but still ... agreed but in a way...so what? if they were in a position to make a cup run then maybe. honestly, did you want them to pay first round picks for depth defensemen this year? i didnt. it was wise not to. the real question is why they are still not in the position to do that, and as you point out, the blame for that lies with yzerman's regime. here's a question about yzerman: he brought in brisebois and verbeek to tampa and helped build a juggernaut. both those guys - especially brisebois, but verbeek has been off to a solid start in anaheim - have been successful elsewhere. perhaps yzerman made the wrong hires in detroit simply to placate the red wings "alumni" club? draper, kronwall, lidstrom, cleary, fischer....perhaps these guys arent good enough? whomever brought you this offseason should be sacked for sure. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted March 23 Posted March 23 (edited) 52 minutes ago, buddha said: here's a question about yzerman: he brought in brisebois and verbeek to tampa and helped build a juggernaut. both those guys - especially brisebois, but verbeek has been off to a solid start in anaheim - have been successful elsewhere. perhaps yzerman made the wrong hires in detroit simply to placate the red wings "alumni" club? draper, kronwall, lidstrom, cleary, fischer....perhaps these guys arent good enough? whomever brought you this offseason should be sacked for sure. I think this is the a big piece of the issue for sure. You normally see a successful GM bring as much of his team as will follow him. Did Yzerman bring anyone? That probably should have been a red flag from the get go. That and the near total lack of accountability for the poor FO performance with trades and FA is another red flag. You can envision Yzerman being the total Mensch and saying - well it's my fault they didn't do better, but if you are going to be that guy and take the blows for everyone, a sports FO is probably not the long term job for you. Even Al Avila replaced people. Edited March 23 by gehringer_2 Quote
buddha Posted March 23 Posted March 23 29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think this is the a big piece of the issue for sure. You normally see a successful GM bring as much of his team as will follow him. Did Yzerman bring anyone? That probably should have been a red flag from the get go. That and the near total lack of accountability for the poor FO performance with trades and FA is another red flag. You can envision Yzerman being the total Mensch and saying - well it's my fault they didn't do better, but if you are going to be that guy and take the blows for everyone, a sports FO is probably not the long term job for you. Even Al Avila replaced people. brisebois took the #1 job when yzerman left. verbeek came with him and then took the head job in anaheim. remember when avila lost all his top guys to other teams because he was so successful at his last gig? you dont? huh. 😉 you can continue to strain that analogy all you want because of one bad free agent signing period but it wont make it more accurate. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted March 24 Posted March 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, buddha said: brisebois took the #1 job when yzerman left. verbeek came with him and then took the head job in anaheim. remember when avila lost all his top guys to other teams because he was so successful at his last gig? you dont? huh. 😉 you can continue to strain that analogy all you want because of one bad free agent signing period but it wont make it more accurate. you are over reading. The point was even a bad GM replaces people (it was a contrast not a compare!). Nobody gets it right on all their hires. I don't take the fact that there has been so little turn over - especially among the ex-Wings, as a particularly good sign. Edited March 24 by gehringer_2 Quote
buddha Posted March 24 Posted March 24 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: you are over reading. The point was even a bad GM replaces people (it was a contrast not a compare!). Nobody gets it right on all their hires. I don't take the fact that there has been so little turn over - especially among the ex-Wings, as a particularly good sign. you asked if he brought people, he brought verbeek. i dont know enough about hockey - or the wings' front office structure - to know who is responsible for what, but whomever has been responsible for last summer made some.bad choices. and can we talk about goalies? i know goalies are fickle and up and down. lyon looked like a world beater for half a season a year ago. ned and husso each has half a good season under their belt in detroit. but gosh darnit have we had an especially bad run of goalie decisions lately. waiting for cossa/augustine is one thing, but their poor netminders have been just as responsible for this mess as anyone. well, anyone except gustafsson and tarasenko. those two have their own place in red wings hell forever. right next to weiss. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted March 24 Posted March 24 2 hours ago, buddha said: well, anyone except gustafsson and tarasenko. those two have their own place in red wings hell forever. right next to weiss. and Uwe Krupp 1 Quote
1984Echoes Posted March 24 Posted March 24 9 hours ago, buddha said: ... but whomever has been responsible for last summer made some bad choices... They need to make better choices this offseason. I don't want to say it's make-or-break... it's not, IMO. But they need to broom as much detritus as they possibly can off this roster. And add playoff-worthy toughness and skill wherever they can. And kids. i know these guys are young... but they have to add them to the Wings roster and let them go through their growing pains or else this team will NEVER grow. Stevie Y is STUCK in the philosophy of having vets on the roster and making the kids "earn" their way into the NHL. In a way, I do support that theory. But it's time to give the kids some push, into the NHL. That means Holl, Petry, and Gustafsson have no business on the Wings 2024-25 roster. And even if there are growing pains... it means putting Buium, Tuomisto, and Wallinder into the Wings blue line mix. And with ASP at Grand Rapids... ANY falter means he gets a quick call-up (I know you want ASP on the Wings' Opening Day roster buddha... I just don't think that will happen. He'll start in GR... but get some Detroit time, even if it's only 10 games. IMO). We do NOT need any other blue line "VETERANS" other than Chiarot & Seider. They need to lead the way, when it comes to blue line leadership. Heck, even Edvinsson and Johansson qualify there. Lyon is UFA this summer. But the team needs to keep only 1 of Talbot or Mrazek and call up Cossa. Is Augustine signed this year and placed at GR? Fill in with a couple AAAA vets at GR in case there's a need but it's time to get off the "barely adequate but mostly crappy" vet goalies that they keep signing. Stevie swung and missed, multiple times here. Change gears Steve. (Not an order... just a request.) Danielson needs to start on the opening day roster. But here's our greatest weakness. No high-end forwards ready to be called up. Too many undersized, maybe/ sorta skilled forwards... I'm just guessing... but Kane might move on or retire after this year. I know we love Cat's sniping... but if there were an opportunity to get bigger, stronger... I wouldn't pass it up. Berggren is redundant and not what is needed right now. Which still means, no matter which direction is chosen, that either we don't have enough offense, or we don't have enough playoff toughness/size/skill. Or both. Conundrum. How do we fix this last issue? It's a necessary fix, and Steve has to figure it out this summer. Please. Quote
lordstanley Posted March 24 Author Posted March 24 GMing is hard. You’re competing against 31 other reasonably smart minds and trying to beat the market. Just like picking stocks, it’s not easy to do, and having done it for years successfully in one organization doesn’t mean you’ll be able to replicate it in a different time and place. Quite possible for example that over the past 6 years Yzerman has done better than 20 of the other 31 GMs would have done in his shoes. But in order for the Wings to be solidly in the playoffs and in line to be true Cup contenders within a couple of years he would have had to have been a top 5 GM since being hired by the Wings. Maybe he is only #12, let’s say. Skill has something to do with it of course, but so does luck. I think Yzerman has had bad goalie luck, as I liked what he tried in bringing in Ned then Husso then Lyon. Just needed one of those to pan out as being above average, and I expected one of those three would have. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted March 24 Posted March 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, lordstanley said: GMing is hard. You’re competing against 31 other reasonably smart minds and trying to beat the market. Just like picking stocks, it’s not easy to do, and having done it for years successfully in one organization doesn’t mean you’ll be able to replicate it in a different time and place. Quite possible for example that over the past 6 years Yzerman has done better than 20 of the other 31 GMs would have done in his shoes. But in order for the Wings to be solidly in the playoffs and in line to be true Cup contenders within a couple of years he would have had to have been a top 5 GM since being hired by the Wings. Maybe he is only #12, let’s say. Skill has something to do with it of course, but so does luck. I think Yzerman has had bad goalie luck, as I liked what he tried in bringing in Ned then Husso then Lyon. Just needed one of those to pan out as being above average, and I expected one of those three would have. Like Buddha - I will grant that Goalies are fickle, but that doesn't excuse the position player moves. It's clear enough to everyone, and Yzerman even says this, that the Wings need to be stronger on the puck and going after the puck, but when the team makes trade/FA moves, they don't move in that direction - it's like they can't find what they need but then are moving guys just to make the moves and as a result too often getting worse. Cat and Kane are both examples - I like both players under the right circumstances, but they were acquisitions that only made the teams biggest deficiency worse. And Gus in place of Ghost? Same thing - Ghost lacked some of what they were looking for - fine - but they replaced him with a guy that has even less of any of those things. That there may have been cap issue is no excuse - they put themselves there as well. Edited March 24 by gehringer_2 Quote
slothfacekilla Posted March 25 Posted March 25 After being run into twice by Utah hockey players Mrazek leaves with an injury less than two minutes into the game Quote
slothfacekilla Posted March 25 Posted March 25 Honestly I'm a bit disappointed that the Wings' response to the Mrazek situation was to shrug. Am I crazy that two dudes just ran into Mrazek who seemed to be in his crease? No penalty given. Wings put out their fourth line with Watson, nothing. Now they're down 1-0 after giving up yet another power play goal by the first guy who ran Mrazek. I don't know what to say. Quote
slothfacekilla Posted March 25 Posted March 25 Well Tarasenko made a great play then sets up Elmer to tie it, I'll take that as a "response" Quote
lordstanley Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 Elmer with his 4th of the season. Four more than I thought he would score with the big club this year. Quote
lordstanley Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 3 shots, 2 goals. Kasper gives Wings the 2-1 lead. Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 25 Posted March 25 11 hours ago, lordstanley said: GMing is hard. You’re competing against 31 other reasonably smart minds and trying to beat the market. Just like picking stocks, it’s not easy to do, and having done it for years successfully in one organization doesn’t mean you’ll be able to replicate it in a different time and place. Quite possible for example that over the past 6 years Yzerman has done better than 20 of the other 31 GMs would have done in his shoes. But in order for the Wings to be solidly in the playoffs and in line to be true Cup contenders within a couple of years he would have had to have been a top 5 GM since being hired by the Wings. Maybe he is only #12, let’s say. Skill has something to do with it of course, but so does luck. I think Yzerman has had bad goalie luck, as I liked what he tried in bringing in Ned then Husso then Lyon. Just needed one of those to pan out as being above average, and I expected one of those three would have. GM'ing is very hard, I don't disagree there. As a GM, good or bad, part of your job is not only evaluation of talent on the ice, but also the talent you have inside the organization. You have to evaluate the talent you have and put out on the ice to see who fits, who doesn't, and where changes have to be made. Part of making those changes includes consulting the talent you have in your front office. You also have to be willing to make similar evaluations of your front office and scouting staff to see what is working, what isn't, and where changes have to be made. Right now, Yzerman's pro scouting and player personnel staff is failing him miserably. Maybe they actually aren't failing him and Yzerman is making all the pro side personnel moves himself. Maybe he's doing all the free agent signings, trades, and transactions on his own, without consulting his pro scouts and player personnel staff. I doubt that very much though. Whoever is giving his advice is either giving him bad advice or isn't speaking out if they believe he's making a bad decision. I don't if it's Assistant GM Shawn Horcoff, Player Personnel people like Clearly and/or Fischer, or any one of the number of scouts they have. But his pro side moves have on average been mediocre to bad. And when the moves haven't worked, they really haven't worked (Chiarot, Gustafsson, Holl, Husso, Petry, Tarasenko). We've seen other Detroit GMs come in and clean house in their respective organization's scouting and player personnel departments, be it Brad Holmes with the Lions or Scott Harris with the Tigers. Maybe Yzerman needs to be looking into making some changes on his player personnel or pro-side scouting staff. Assuming they are advising him on some of the signings they are making, they aren't advising him very well. 1 Quote
lordstanley Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 11 minutes ago, buddha said: 5 shots on goal after two periods. is lalonde back? And have lost their goalie and are somehow leading. Are the Wings going to tease us and keep faint hopes alive by actually winning this game? Quote
lordstanley Posted March 25 Author Posted March 25 ENG for DeBrincat. Wings have never lost in Utah. Quote
buddha Posted March 25 Posted March 25 we cant even tank right! the flyers went into chicago last night and gave up 7! they were down by 3 goals after 2! to the hawks! now that's a team that knows when its beaten. Quote
Motor City Sonics Posted March 25 Posted March 25 8 hours ago, lordstanley said: Wings have never lost in Utah. That is impressive I'll take 4 flukey goals and a win any day Quote
gehringer_2 Posted March 25 Posted March 25 14 hours ago, lordstanley said: Elmer with his 4th of the season. Four more than I thought he would score with the big club this year. Elmer has 10 pts in 23 games playing 13min/gm. That's a 50 point season pace for a guy playing 18min/gm. Quote
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