2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[casimir]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Would keeping him and winning the World Series be enough compensation?

This is a good idea.

[Motor City Sonics]

What do you do with Skubal at the deadline if you're in first place next season? 

You ask the Mets for their TOP FOUR prospects.    TOP FOUR and nothing less.   When they say No then you ride it out. 

Steve Cohen is going to offer Skubal 60-70 million a year.   Let him go ahead and do that.  

[1984Echoes]

27 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

What do you do with Skubal at the deadline ...

You ask the Mets for their TOP FOUR prospects....

 

Mets top 4 is very, very... MEH.

No thank you.

Boston Red Sox? They won't include Mayer. Baltimore? They won't do it.

Your best bet if you wanted to try this:

The Phillies.

Dombrowski will trade top prospects for an annual Cy.

Andrew Painter, Aidan Miller, Justin Crawford or Griffin Burkholder, and Moises Chace...

Maybe.

Who says no? 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, TigerNation said:

They didn't move him at the deadline.

no indeed, and if they move Skubal it should also be in the off-season, but like the Twins, they probably won't get real value back, just like moving Sale was no answer for the White Sox, nor moving Verlander was for the Tigers (though of course they weren't even in contention). It seems counter intuitive not to take the trade value a year out but it seems more often than not the value returned in the player's walk year is as great or greater than the trade return ends up being so you might at will keep the player and take the comp pick when he walks.

[RandyMarsh]

Assuming he's still pitching at this level next deadline and if the Tigers do indeed shop him around I think David Price in 2015 would be a good comp. Like Skubal, Price was a rental and like him an elite pitcher and Cy Young winner, both the same age as well.

We of course got a top 15ish overall prospect in Norris as the centerpiece along with Matthew Boyd who I think was considered more of a fringe guy at that point but I could be remembering that wrong.

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:35 AM by RandyMarsh

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

We of course got a top 15ish overall prospect in Norris as the centerpiece along with Matthew Boyd who I think was considered more of a fringe guy at that point but I could be remembering that wrong.

Boyds career WAR after the trade was not too much different from Price's, Norris was sub replacement as often as he made a positive contribution - so we did better than MN did moving Santana and better than we did moving Verlander, but I think the odds are you move Skubal you end with a lot less total WAR returned than he will generate - the question is can you use the money you save to find/buy/develop other players to make up for it. Bottom line I doubt the Tigers can recoup much of his value whether they try to trade him or not.

[SoCalTiger]

Would the Max Fried contract extend Skubal ?

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Assuming he's still pitching at this level next deadline and if the Tigers do indeed shop him around I think David Price in 2015 would be a good comp. Like Skubal, Price was a rental and like him an elite pitcher and Cy Young winner, both the same age as well.

We of course got a top 15ish overall prospect in Norris as the centerpiece along with Matthew Boyd who I think was considered more of a fringe guy at that point but I could be remembering that wrong.

 

Yeah, I remember Norris was the bigger prospect at the time. Did Al Avila make that trade? If so, it must have been his best trade. Even if by accident. A broken clock or a blind squirrel type of thing.

[Sports_Freak]

5 hours ago, papalawrence said:

With Skubal I'd see it more like 11/400, starting a year before he hits FA. Takes him to age 39. Huge risk. Don't see Harris going there.

I say when you talk about that kind of money, the decision isn't on Harris. And IMO, I wouldn't blame the Tigers for either letting Skubal walk or trading him. Work the Mets and Phillies against each other. That would be where Harris and his scouts come in, identifying the talent. And getting us quality prospects.

[4hzglory]

7 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Yeah, I remember Norris was the bigger prospect at the time. Did Al Avila make that trade? If so, it must have been his best trade. Even if by accident. A broken clock or a blind squirrel type of thing.

It was DD’s last deadline.

 

I’d say Avila’s best trade was probably flipping Norris for Olsen.  

[Hongbit]

8 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Would the Max Fried contract extend Skubal ?

Maybe if Tarik fired Boras.   Otherwise, probably not.

[gehringer_2]

7 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Yeah, I remember Norris was the bigger prospect at the time. Did Al Avila make that trade? If so, it must have been his best trade. Even if by accident. A broken clock or a blind squirrel type of thing.

When Norris 1st came to Detroit he had a fantastic swing and miss fastball, but his mechanics were a disaster. It was a reasonable thought that you could fix the latter without losing the former, but between injuries and the fact he simply could not get his body to throw a baseball hard enough in any reasonably reproducible way, it never came to be. I thought Norris was even more frustrating than Dontrelle in terms of there being an arm there that the rest of the body just wouldn't cooperate with.

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Well, of course. But that really is a next year problem. Do you see this Tiger management team offering Boras $30 to $35 million per for 6 or 7 years? I don't see it but you never know. Skubal may give us a discount. After all, how much money does a guy need, 🤣🤣

The Tigers would sign Skubal for 7/210 to 7/245 every say of the week and twice on Sunday. The fly in that ointment is that Skubal would never take that because it would be the worst offer on the table by a mile and a half.

Edited Wednesday at 12:41 PM by chasfh

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Assuming he's still pitching at this level next deadline and if the Tigers do indeed shop him around I think David Price in 2015 would be a good comp. Like Skubal, Price was a rental and like him an elite pitcher and Cy Young winner, both the same age as well.

We of course got a top 15ish overall prospect in Norris as the centerpiece along with Matthew Boyd who I think was considered more of a fringe guy at that point but I could be remembering that wrong.

 

Man I totally forgot Daniel Norris was a top 20 overall prospect. Man, did the Tigers ever **** that one up.

[chasfh]

Can I just tell you how much it makes my heart hurt to see talk of trading our top talent for prospects again? Can’t we just get beyond that for even one year?

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Man, did the Tigers ever **** that one up.

Tigers weren't the only org that tried and failed to fix Norris, but they did fail at it longer.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Can I just tell you how much it makes my heart hurt to see talk of trading our top talent for prospects again? Can’t we just get beyond that for even one year?

A reality brought to us by the CBA which probably isn't going to go away. ☹️

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tigers weren't the only org that tried and failed to fix Norris, but they did fail at it longer.

They ****ed him up first, and beyond repair.

Either that or Pipeline has no idea how to properly value and rank prospects after all.

Probably a little of both.

[chasfh]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

A reality brought to us by the CBA which probably isn't going to go away. ☹️

Disagree. We are considered a viable contender for the AL pennant. CBA or not, trading stars for prospects should be completely off the table,

[gehringer_2]

Just now, chasfh said:

Disagree. We are considered a viable contender for the AL pennant. CBA or not, trading stars for prospects should be completely off the table,

what about a trade for major leaguers? I'm not sure why the discussion is stuck on a trade for prospects. If you can't sign him and you want to get some kind of return, why limit the discussion to a prospect trade? I wouldn't think the team would limit trade talks to prospects if they do go down that route.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

They ****ed him up first, and beyond repair.

IDK, his mechanics were messed up from day one he arrived. He was always going to be project. Granted, given the lack of developmental acumen probably a dumb move taking on such a project.

Edited Wednesday at 12:56 PM by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

what about a trade for major leaguers? I'm not sure why the discussion is stuck on a trade for prospects. If you can't sign him and you want to get some kind of return, why limit the discussion to a prospect trade? I wouldn't think the team would limit trade talks to prospects if they do go down that route.

I wish they still made those kinds of trades today, but they are now very rare, especially at the deadline.  I pretty much assume that any deadline trade of a star will be for prospects.  

[papalawrence]

Norris' stiff leg landing looked unorthodox and stressful. Morris commented on it often. And Fulmer's delivery looked like it was straining. I recall his rookie year Rosenthal commented that he is an injury waiting to happen. I said "eff you" out loud to the TV, but he was correct. Boyd has had the best career of the pitchers Detroit brought in

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

Norris' stiff leg landing looked unorthodox and stressful.

Norris was even worse than that - he never planted right - stiff or not, and he recoiled after his release and half fell off the mound. A still legged pitcher can still be reproducible and succeed (JV lands pretty stiffly and lasted a long time).  That recoil prevented Norris from ever having a consistent follow through and release on his pitches, and he never conquered it.

Edited Wednesday at 01:07 PM by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I wish they still made those kinds of trades today, but they are now very rare, especially at the deadline.  I pretty much assume that any deadline trade of a star will be for prospects.  

Which is another way of saying that no-one will give up fair value even for a good pitcher even with a full year of control. Which argues that you might as well get the last year's value yourself, let him walk, and hope your comp pick turns into a serviceable player.

I think you can do well with deadline deals with more average players, but not so much at the all-star level.

Edited Wednesday at 01:13 PM by gehringer_2