2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[Sports_Freak]

45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Can I just tell you how much it makes my heart hurt to see talk of trading our top talent for prospects again? Can’t we just get beyond that for even one year?

While I agree, I just don't see the Tigers paying him what may be the going rate. Keep him and maybe contend for a deep playoff run next season and then let him walk or trade him in the off-season or at the trade deadline? It looks like those may be our options. But now, let's discuss Greene's future. When does he become a FA? 😅

Edited Wednesday at 01:32 PM by Sports_Freak

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

what about a trade for major leaguers? I'm not sure why the discussion is stuck on a trade for prospects. If you can't sign him and you want to get some kind of return, why limit the discussion to a prospect trade? I wouldn't think the team would limit trade talks to prospects if they do go down that route.

Example?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK, his mechanics were messed up from day one he arrived. He was always going to be project. Granted, given the lack of developmental acumen probably a dumb move taking on such a project.

You cut out the other part which mitigates that part you wanted to pin me on.

[chasfh]

53 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

While I agree, I just don't see the Tigers paying him what may be the going rate. Keep him and maybe contend for a deep playoff run next season and then let him walk or trade him in the off-season or at the trade deadline? It looks like those may be our options. But now, let's discuss Greene's future. When does he become a FA? 😅

Well, you go ahead, but I'm not going to worry about tomorrow or 2026 or 2027 or 2030 or any of that. That's for future me to worry about. Present me is going to enjoy having the best pitcher in the game today help us win a pennant this year.

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You cut out the other part which mitigates that part you wanted to pin me on.

I'm not trying to PIN anything on anyone.

[gehringer_2]

28 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Example?

Goes back to Lee's point - if you can't get proven players for a proven player, you might as well not bother - which is where the conclusion was leading. It's oddity is simply that that conclusion flies in the face of the apparent logic of trying to get back what you can while you can. But it appears the apparent logic may not be sound.

[chasfh]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm not trying to PIN anything on anyone.

I said that because the part you snipped speculated that perhaps Pipeline doesn't really know how to value prospects, probably even more true in practically pre-analytics 2015, so Norris may not have been "all that" anyway—which you yourself mentioned by sharing your own thoughts you'd had when you first saw him. Maybe Dombrowski was just relying on the Pipeline ranking by taking him and the Jays knew better. That wouldn't surprise me, because deep knowledge of prospects was outside the scope of Dombo's expertise.

Edited Wednesday at 03:13 PM by chasfh

[Tiger337]

40 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Well, you go ahead, but I'm not going to worry about tomorrow or 2026 or 2027 or 2030 or any of that. That's for future me to worry about. Present me is going to enjoy having the best pitcher in the game today help us win a pennant this year.

Right, the point of re-building is so you can have a bunch of good years after it's done.  i'm not interested in a perpetual re-build (although I am in favor of a pertually good development system).  

[Edman85]

If he wants too much, take the comp pick and develop more Skubals. If the Tigers stay revenue sharing recipients, you are talking 3 of the top 35 picks or so in 2027.

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Goes back to Lee's point - if you can't get proven players for a proven player, you might as well not bother - which is where the conclusion was leading. It's oddity is simply that that conclusion flies in the face of the apparent logic of trying to get back what you can while you can. But it appears the apparent logic may not be sound.

OK, and that's why I was asking for an example of the major leaguers you'd accept a trade for. If you mean an Austin Riley, a guy who's established his big league cred and is solidly controllable for a long time, OK, you got my attention. OTOH, if you mean someone like a Junior Caminero, someone of prospect age who's yet in the majors and has great potential but hasn't yet established himself as a consistent contributor, then I'm not so sure.

But yeah, I'm with you on what I would accept in trade for Skubal, which is not prospects. I just don't see any trade out there right now that both sides would do that makes sense.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

If he wants too much, take the comp pick and develop more Skubals. If the Tigers stay revenue sharing recipients, you are talking 3 of the top 35 picks or so in 2027.

Right, and that's a winter of 2026-27 problem to solve when we get to it.

[papalawrence]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Norris was even worse than that - he never planted right - stiff or not, and he recoiled after his release and half fell off the mound. A still legged pitcher can still be reproducible and succeed (JV lands pretty stiffly and lasted a long time).  That recoil prevented Norris from ever having a consistent follow through and release on his pitches, and he never conquered it.

I agree

[Sports_Freak]

56 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Well, you go ahead, but I'm not going to worry about tomorrow or 2026 or 2027 or 2030 or any of that. That's for future me to worry about. Present me is going to enjoy having the best pitcher in the game today help us win a pennant this year.

Oh sure....ignore the future. I told my neighbor the same thing, I don't care about tomorrow, which may never come for some of us, I'm more concerned about the present. Like...a lefty on the mound against us today. Even if he DOES have an elevated ERA. 😏

[RandyMarsh]

The highlight of Norris for me was his last start in 2016 when we still had an outside chance at a wc berth.

I remember watching it and thinking that was one of the most explosive fastballs I had ever seen. Unfortunately that was one of the last times he had any sorta life on his fastball.

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

A reality brought to us by Scott Boras which probably isn't going to go away. ☹️

FTFY.

[monkeytargets39]

2 hours ago, Edman85 said:

If he wants too much, take the comp pick and develop more Skubals. If the Tigers stay revenue sharing recipients, you are talking 3 of the top 35 picks or so in 2027.

Yep.  Personally I don’t know that Skubal is going to age very well with that high leg kick.  At some point he’s gonna have to rework his mechanics.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I said that because the part you snipped speculated that perhaps Pipeline doesn't really know how to value prospects, probably even more true in practically pre-analytics 2015, so Norris may not have been "all that" anyway—which you yourself mentioned by sharing your own thoughts you'd had when you first saw him. Maybe Dombrowski was just relying on the Pipeline ranking by taking him and the Jays knew better. That wouldn't surprise me, because deep knowledge of prospects was outside the scope of Dombo's expertise.

OK - I wasn't actually thinking along those lines and certainly true,  but also TBF a guy like Norris where it's a question of 'can we fix him' is still going to be a crap shoot at some level - your have to speculate into the future about whether a guy can do things he hasn't shown he can do, but there is no obvious reason he shouldn't be able to do. Especially when he's outside your system and you can't take your own metrics. He was a very odd case, tens of thousands of guys learn to throw of a rubber  with more grace than Norris, why shouldn't he? If you come from that mindset, you want to take those odds.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Oh sure....ignore the future. I told my neighbor the same thing, I don't care about tomorrow, which may never come for some of us, I'm more concerned about the present. Like...a lefty on the mound against us today. Even if he DOES have an elevated ERA. 😏

I don’t think the choice is between tear it down and build for the future, versus go for it and ignore the future. I think that’s a false choice that prior front offices conditioned us to accept as the way things should be. And to be fair, that was the case at one time. But I don’t believe it is now.

And as great a pitcher as he is, I don’t believe we’re in a “Skubal or bust” situation, that he is necessarily the linchpin of our contending for the indefinite future. Sure, we’d like to keep him for a few years after 2026, ideally for the rest of the decade. But I’m with what Ed suggested: if we try to sign him for good money and ends up walking anyway, we take the comp pick and trust our pitching science team to build a winning rotation without him.

[Sports_Freak]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

I don’t think the choice is between tear it down and build for the future, versus go for it and ignore the future. I think that’s a false choice that prior front offices conditioned us to accept as the way things should be. And to be fair, that was the case at one time. But I don’t believe it is now.

And as great a pitcher as he is, I don’t believe we’re in a “Skubal or bust” situation, that he is necessarily the linchpin of our contending for the indefinite future. Sure, we’d like to keep him for a few years after 2026, ideally for the rest of the decade. But I’m with what Ed suggested: if we try to sign him for good money and ends up walking anyway, we take the comp pick and trust our pitching science team to build a winning rotation without him.

I look at it like this, I would love the Tigers to sign him and have him be a Cy Young candidate for several years. And since it's not MY money, I don't care about the cost. Do Tiger fans think we'll use that money to bring in other players? IMO, the Tigers won't give him huge money and we won't go after any other expensive and established players. We'll just keep drafting and developing young players, which I totally approve of. Harris seems to have built an organization that finds talent, drafts and develops it. Look at last year's All Star game, they had a record number of under 25 year old players. Young and affordable are the way to go.

[Tigermojo]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/04/poll-should-spencer-torkelsons-breakout-be-believed.html

Torque!

[IdahoBert]

We’re all impressed with what the Tigers have been doing not merely through brute force, but through coaching and finding pressure points in the game that give them an advantage.

In the aggregate, is this so nuanced that it would be hard for other teams to replicate?

Some people have said the Tigers are simply doing what Cleveland has been doing for years, but I have a feeling it’s more nuanced than that. Is it?
 

 

[Tigermojo]

10 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

We’re all impressed with what the Tigers have been doing not merely through brute force, but through coaching and finding pressure points in the game that give them an advantage.

In the aggregate, is this so nuanced that it would be hard for other teams to replicate?

Some people have said the Tigers are simply doing what Cleveland has been doing for years, but I have a feeling it’s more nuanced than that. Is it?
 

 

I don't know about other teams but the players seem to have completely bought in to what Harris and Hinch have asked them to do.

Another thing I noticed is they seem to hold themselves accountable. I'm not sure if it's an individual thing and leading by example or if guys are vocal behind the scenes. That's something I've heard many times over the years about the '84 team. They held each other accountable and it elevated everyone's performance.

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I don't know about other teams but the players seem to have completely bought in to what Harris and Hinch have asked them to do.

Another thing I noticed is they seem to hold themselves accountable. I'm not sure if it's an individual thing and leading by example or if guys are vocal behind the scenes. That's something I've heard many times over the years about the '84 team. They held each other accountable and it elevated everyone's performance.

I think the players being so young with very little MLB experience is a factor in players buying in to Harris and Hinch’s program. They’re not far enough along in their careers to have egos so big that they can reject it. And the one guy who might be best suited to do that was so terrible the past couple of years that he could not reasonably fight them on it and come off looking good.

[davidsb623]

Gage Workman designated for assignment by Cubs.  Should the Tigers bring him back or let the Cubs keep him?  I think he would be a strong player to have at Toledo, preparing for another shot at the majors.  

[monkeytargets39]

1 hour ago, davidsb623 said:

Gage Workman designated for assignment by Cubs.  Should the Tigers bring him back or let the Cubs keep him?  I think he would be a strong player to have at Toledo, preparing for another shot at the majors.  

No reason not to bring him back as depth