NBA Playoffs Round 1. (3) New York Knicks vs. (6) Detroit Pistons

[buddha]

from jeiii on the knicks: "knicks were frustrated by the lack of calls in the first half."

lol wut?

 

[buddha]

46 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Not sure why Thibs took out the sledgehammer and ran iso Brunson over and over.  But thank you.  Not taking away from the nice defensive effort by Detroit, but its much easier to defend a team running the same play for the same player over and over.

Letting us hide Duren on Hart is quite the gift.  It's letting Duren come off of Hart and help a bit since Hart isn't a 3PT threat.  He can get to the rim a bit though and is a good passer, averaging 6 APG.  They should be running PnR with Hart as the ball handler and KAT screening.  Harris and Duren defending the PnR together is something a team should want to exploit.  Can anyone remember a single time it was run last night?

Where were the doubles and traps on Cade?  Cade will kill you if you can't speed him up and make him uncomfortable. 

The Knock on JB is he doesn't adjust well.  Not a real X's and O's type of coach.  He was smart last night letting Cade go one on one without screens.  It helped keep the doubles away from Cade a bit.  In game 1 when Cade came off of a screen he had one or two defenders waiting for him.  That never happened last night.  That with the hiding Duren on Hart has JB winning the coaching game so far.

brunson also needs to pass the ball.  and kat - if he had any balls at all - would get in the post and demand the ball.  but as we all know, kat has no balls so it wont happen.

[lordstanley]

45 minutes ago, buddha said:

from jeiii on the knicks: "knicks were frustrated by the lack of calls in the first half."

lol wut?

 

 

[Deleterious]

For all the bitching about the refs, Detroit shot 34 FT's while NYK shot 19. 

 

[Deleterious]

Anonymous NBA player poll 2025: MVP pick? Most overrated? Too many 3s?

Quote

The Athletic’s annual anonymous player poll is back, and it’s more comprehensive than ever. Our writers fanned out and spoke with 158 players. That’s over one-third of the league, with players from all 30 teams represented.

From early March through mid-April, we asked their opinions about the league’s best and worst organizations, the most underrated players, the impact of the league’s gambling partnerships, the 3-point revolution — and much more.

We’ve granted anonymity to give the players the freedom to answer honestly, without fear of reprisals from opponents, teammates or fans. Some players declined to answer certain questions, and as you’ll see from the results below, we’re providing full transparency on the number of respondents to each topic.

Some Detroit specific answers:

Future face of the league - Cade was 8th with 2.2% of the vote

Leagues most underrated player - Cade was 1st with 8.8% of the vote.

Aside from your current coach, who is the best coach in the league?  - JB was 9th with 2.7% of the vote

Who would you least like to fight? - Stewart was 2nd with 13.5% of the vote.  James Johnson was 1st of course with 63% of the vote.

Do you like the idea of 10 min quarters? - 78% said no

Are gambling partnerships good/bad for the league?  46% said bad.  34% said good.  12% in the middle.  8% undecided.

Would you be willing to shorten the season if it meant less pay - 85% said no

 

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I thought KAT was going to dominate with Stew out (I like Duren...but that's a challenging match up physically)  stunned that he was such a non factor

same. you would think he would at least starting jacking up 3s

[Deleterious]

Duren only guarded KAT for 47 seconds last night.  Harris was on him for 10:36 and Paul Reed had him for 1:03

[Deleterious]

6 or 7 of the Brunson fouls are probably Thompson 65 feet from the basket. 

 

[gehringer_2]

well, maybe 5 or 6. 

[Deleterious]

 

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

Anonymous NBA player poll 2025: MVP pick? Most overrated? Too many 3s?

Some Detroit specific answers:

Future face of the league - Cade was 8th with 2.2% of the vote

Leagues most underrated player - Cade was 1st with 8.8% of the vote.

 

Who would you least like to fight? - Stewart was 2nd with 13.5% of the vote.  James Johnson was 1st of course with 63% of the vote.

 

 

Going into the playoffs. Barkley called him Wade Cunningham. Or it may have been Shaq?

Shaq did say at halftime last night that if a brawl broke out, he would stay away from Duren. He said "Now THAT'S a man." Lmao....

[Betrayer]

People are talking about KAT being ineffective, but few on here are giving any credit to Tobias. Nationally they are, as they should be. Even though KAT's bigger, Tobias has been battling him non-stop and doing a nice job making him feel it. You do that enough and KAT wilts because he doesn't want to go the post and fight for position all game. He wants to shoot from outside and Tobias is quick enough to guard him out there.

I'll also point out that in 2 games Tobias has 19 rebounds while shooting 14-24 and 5-9 from three. Everyone knocked this signing because he's not an All-Star, but he's been one of our most important high level role players on and off the court.

However, as Del said earlier, you have to look at your starting Center when you're required to hide him on Hart since he can't guard in space. How much do you want to pay that guy? If Tibbs wasn't so stubborn he'd play McBride instead and then what? In fact, I'd be surprised if that isn't the main adjustment (along with more Cade traps) we'll see from the next game. Hopefully Stew will be back to provide the answer to that adjustment.

[NYLion]

17 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Playoff drought snapped!

Winning this game on the road when the three ball completely abandoned you is huge.

Also wonder if JB discovered something here. Nobody is stopping Brunson’s flopping, but maybe more minutes with Schroeder harassing him so Ausar can work his off-ball roaming, stealing, and disruptive help defense without fouling out.  Worth trying.
 

 

Harder for him to flop/foul bait when he's being defended by a player of similar size, plus Schroder has quick feet defensively so Brunson has a harder time driving by him. 

[Deleterious]

55 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

People are talking about KAT being ineffective, but few on here are giving any credit to Tobias. Nationally they are, as they should be. Even though KAT's bigger, Tobias has been battling him non-stop and doing a nice job making him feel it. You do that enough and KAT wilts because he doesn't want to go the post and fight for position all game. He wants to shoot from outside and Tobias is quick enough to guard him out there.

I'll also point out that in 2 games Tobias has 19 rebounds while shooting 14-24 and 5-9 from three. Everyone knocked this signing because he's not an All-Star, but he's been one of our most important high level role players on and off the court.

However, as Del said earlier, you have to look at your starting Center when you're required to hide him on Hart since he can't guard in space. How much do you want to pay that guy? If Tibbs wasn't so stubborn he'd play McBride instead and then what? In fact, I'd be surprised if that isn't the main adjustment (along with more Cade traps) we'll see from the next game. Hopefully Stew will be back to provide the answer to that adjustment.

Harris was abused on defense in game 1 while completely disappearing on offense in the 2nd half.  Not only did KAT score on him, he was a big reason the Knicks ran the layup line on Detroit in the 4th quarters.  A little unfair to Harris since he shouldn't have to basically play center on defense. 

KAT didn't get the ball last night, so we don't know if Harris played good defense on him or not.  He absolutely was better at controlling the paint though and deserves a lot of credit for that.

But I can't get over the play where Brunson switched onto Harris.  Tobias held the ball for a good 5 seconds, then shot a 20-foot fade away jumper.  He has 6+ inches and 50 pounds on Brunson and he cant back him down?  That was such a KAT move. 

 

[buddha]

harris deserves credit for playing physical with kat, but he didnt stop him at all in game 1.

the reason kat didnt score on him in game 2 is because kat is a pussy and refuses to post up and brunson refuses to pass him the ball.  brunson has to play hero ball.

people get on thibs for not "calling plays for kat," but i suspect much of the late game nba game is more about players with the ball in their hands deciding what to do with it rather than the coach yelling from the sideline.

brunson was really pissed at ausar and schroeder that game.  he was going to play hero ball against them no matter what thibs is saying.  and kat being the pansy he is isnt going to demand the ball.  he'll be 10 feet behind brunson saying "yeah!  yeah!  you get em jalen!"

[buddha]

either way, this has been a fun series so far.

[Deleterious]

The entire team and coaching staff deserve a ton of credit for last night.

If I told you before the game that:

Stewart plays 0 minutes

Cade has 3 assists

Harris, Beasley, and THJ combine to shoot 2-18 from three.  With Cade its 3-22. 

Would you guess the Knicks win by 20 or 30?

[Betrayer]

It's like in '04 when the media acted like the Lakers beat themselves because apparently the Pistons had nothing to do with it.

I get it, it's hard to give credit to the guy after how strongly everyone came out against him in the pre-season. He's no All-Star but he's been just what this team needed and a big part of why they're here. We shouldn't be able to compare his numbers and impact to the All-NBA player he's matched up against in this series, but that's actually what we're able to do and it says a lot about both players.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Betrayer said:

It's like in '04 when the media acted like the Lakers beat themselves because apparently the Pistons had nothing to do with it.

I get it, it's hard to give credit to the guy after how strongly everyone came out against him in the pre-season. He's no All-Star but he's been just what this team needed and a big part of why they're here. We shouldn't be able to compare his numbers and impact to the All-NBA player he's matched up against in this series, but that's actually what we're able to do and it says a lot about both players.

look, i come not to bury tobias harris but to praise him.  but every time we brought up kat this year we all laughed about what a soft pansy ass he was and said we cant wait to see him play weak in the playoffs.  

and now that its happened - just like it happens every year - you say "what a great job by harris on kat."

i mean, sure.  but we all know - and YOU know - that kat is a pansy.  that's why jb putting harris on him works.  not because harris is bad or because harris is a lockdown defender, but because KAT IS A PUSSY.  he wont post him up and wont be aggressive.

i dont want to take anything away from harris.  he's a soldier doing yeoman's work.  he IS playing against a guy who is 4 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier and he's staying with him.  that says something.  and he stepped up when stew got hurt.  

harris has been a good teammate all year.  he's been professional.  he plays hard and not dumb.  but he's still tobias harris.  he's a 4th option forced to be a 2nd or 3rd option because ivey is hurt. 

and that's ok.  he is what he is and right now he's contributing to a team that just stole home court.  let's all be happy.

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, buddha said:

let's all be happy.

now you're going too far.....

 

[Shinzaki]

9 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Duren only guarded KAT for 47 seconds last night.  Harris was on him for 10:36 and Paul Reed had him for 1:03

With as much switching and pseudo zoning they do...can you trust those numbers?

[Deleterious]

11 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

With as much switching and pseudo zoning they do...can you trust those numbers?

I googled it and it appears they track 29 data points on each players body and collect data 25 times a second.

It's probably not perfect. I could see issues with a large number of players in the same area, like the paint. But I imagine it's fairly accurate.

[Shinzaki]

Fascinating...had no idea they tracked that

[Betrayer]

13 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

With as much switching and pseudo zoning they do...can you trust those numbers?

It's correct. I re-watched the game last night. I just needed to see a Detroit playoff win again after nearly 20 years. Call me crazy.

The only time Duren guarded him was on a fast break where KAT collided with Duren and threw up a prayer that went in, then complained for a call.

[Betrayer]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

look, i come not to bury tobias harris but to praise him.  but every time we brought up kat this year we all laughed about what a soft pansy ass he was and said we cant wait to see him play weak in the playoffs.  

and now that its happened - just like it happens every year - you say "what a great job by harris on kat."

i mean, sure.  but we all know - and YOU know - that kat is a pansy.  that's why jb putting harris on him works.  not because harris is bad or because harris is a lockdown defender, but because KAT IS A PUSSY.  he wont post him up and wont be aggressive.

i dont want to take anything away from harris.  he's a soldier doing yeoman's work.  he IS playing against a guy who is 4 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier and he's staying with him.  that says something.  and he stepped up when stew got hurt.  

harris has been a good teammate all year.  he's been professional.  he plays hard and not dumb.  but he's still tobias harris.  he's a 4th option forced to be a 2nd or 3rd option because ivey is hurt. 

and that's ok.  he is what he is and right now he's contributing to a team that just stole home court.  let's all be happy.

Well put, balanced take and I totally agree. 

For what it's worth, I re-watched the game last night. I was going to do that anyway, but since we were talking about it I paid particular attention to KAT and Tobias.

Harris actual did a phenomenal job of not leaving KAT to the point where he gave some open looks to other guys when maybe he should have switched. He was always between KAT and the ball, denying the pass and not letting him get any catch and shoot opportunities. That's the assignment against someone as soft as KAT.

As far as KAT taking the ball into the paint. Three of his makes in the first half were against Cade (missed switch), Duren (prayer that went in), and Reed. He had a couple of nice post ups on Tobias, but Tobias also stopped him a couple of times in the paint.

In the second half KAT had 3 opportunities in the paint. Tobias stopped him in the post on the first one in the 3rd quarter. Then, in the fourth quarter KAT had 2 chances. One was a post up and one was a drive. On both of them he was smothered by Tobias (and some help) so he had to pass out of them and couldn't even get a shot up.

As you said, KAT could have been less of a punk and kept going to the paint to demand the ball, but we all know that ain't KAT. The few opportunities he did try in the second half were shut down by really good defense.

We already agree on all this, but I just figured I'd post some details here since I re-watched it with this in mind.