1984Echoes Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: ... Ranking Flores above Jobe is.....odd in my view. I would gander that's based on performance versus projection... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Keith Law did his team farm system rankings and he ranked the Tigers as the worst system in baseball. He mentioned how they haven't had any contributions from the international signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Stanley70 said: Keith Law did his team farm system rankings and he ranked the Tigers as the worst system in baseball. He mentioned how they haven't had any contributions from the international signings. i think prospect rankings are a bit silly, but still find this a hilarious legacy of al avila. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 It's an incomplete picture of the player development system, with a lot of variables like recent promotions, draft position, etc. But even given those the Tigers are awful at baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 17 minutes ago, buddha said: i think prospect rankings are a bit silly, but still find this a hilarious legacy of al avila. Hilarious? Laughing to keep from crying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) Said it in the other thread, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the farm system isn't where it needs to be. Whether it's 25 or 27 or 30 or wherever is beside the point, they aren't good enough. The question is where they go from here. Harris has made some smart hires and has worked on at least bringing in more depth in the immediate term, which is good. Hopefully we see more improvement in drafting and development. Edited February 2, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: ...Hopefully we see more improvement in drafting and development. That is it in a nutshell - D2 (drafting and developing). Bingo! The International part also needs improvement. With said I too feel there is more overall depth and several players may be able to take a big step forward this summer. They also have 3 of the top 46 picks I believe. Should be an interesting period - one would think 🤔 ⚾ 🌤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 2, 2023 Author Share Posted February 2, 2023 5 hours ago, buddha said: i think prospect rankings are a bit silly, but still find this a hilarious legacy of al avila. yeah - a system full of guys that end up topping out at 4A could look like it's running circles around other systems. The only real measure is how many major leaguers make your team in X yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 If we had a real MLB team, they wouldn't have to rush 21 and 22 year olds and our system would look a lot better. I think a better evaluation would be of players under 27 in the whole organization but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 7 hours ago, buddha said: i think prospect rankings are a bit silly, but still find this a hilarious legacy of al avila. I don't dispute that the Tigers system is ranked very low, but they were ranked top five only a year or two ago (not by Law), so things can change quickly. Also, Law is one of the least reputable and knowledgeable of the prospect analysts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 33 minutes ago, Longgone said: Also, Law is one of the least reputable and knowledgeable of the prospect analysts. I don't know that he's less knowledgeable than the rest, he's pretty smart. But I do think his purview is a lot broader than most of the other prospect analysts and it can show at times. His writeup for most teams, including the Tigers, is a good example - they tend to be more backward looking and focus less on specifics on each system as they exist today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Longgone said: I don't dispute that the Tigers system is ranked very low, but they were ranked top five only a year or two ago (not by Law), so things can change quickly. Also, Law is one of the least reputable and knowledgeable of the prospect analysts. Sorry but this isn't true. I can say for a fact that he is more reputable than every single one of the Tigers specific prospect writers out there after Tigstown shut down. And other team specific sites have the same issue. As prospect writing has become democratized and social media engagement has become the main goal over accuracy, the bar has lowered significantly. Edited February 2, 2023 by Edman85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 24 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Sorry but this isn't true. I can say for a fact that he is more reputable than every single one of the Tigers specific prospect writers out there after Tigstown shut down. And other team specific sites have the same issue. As prospect writing has become democratized and social media engagement has become the main goal over accuracy, the bar has lowered significantly. Longgone can correct me if I'm wrong, but interpreted the comment to be more of a comparison to other professional publications, not fan sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Social media engagement is fun. Sometimes they alert me to things that I haven't been watching, but I don't expect them to be accurate all the time. They are really no different than us here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Well as long as Emily Waldon is on the BA payroll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 There's one point for Law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Stanley70 said: Keith Law did his team farm system rankings and he ranked the Tigers as the worst system in baseball. He mentioned how they haven't had any contributions from the international signings. 9 hours ago, buddha said: i think prospect rankings are a bit silly, but still find this a hilarious legacy of al avila. Here's what I would find hilarious...: Harris's new development team... develops... Christian Santana, Roberto Campos, Jobe, Jung, Madden and several others into serious up-and-coming prospects... Is it: (A) Avila was crappy at drafting (it would appear not if these guys turn into a bunch of top 100 prospects or, even better, into real MLB players...)? (B) Crappy in the international market... (but Campos, Santana, any Avila-etc, that fits in here...)? (C) Terrible at development (it would appear so, although several of these guys are pretty young so how to tell what was natural ability/ growth versus the influence of Harris development versus Avila development...)? (D) Avila just not "on the ball enough" (or over his head to put it another way) to see this whole thing through? I will laugh if Harris builds a team loaded with Avila current and future Major Leaguers that he develops into an actual contending team. I'm ready and waiting for some serious LOL's coming up soon... But right now... I'm just confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Longgone can correct me if I'm wrong, but interpreted the comment to be more of a comparison to other professional publications, not fan sites. True, I'm speaking of the Callis, Mayo, Cooper and Callazo'sof the industry. Edited February 2, 2023 by Longgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 I actually like the current system—not smart enough to know how it ranks, but it seems light years better than it was, say 5 years ago. And the point that we’ve had to rush players to the majors based on injuries and general ineptitude, has changed the current state. Prospects I like include Wenceel Perez, Josh Crouch, Parker Meadows, Justyn Malloy, Kerry Carpenter, Colt Keith, Jace Jung, Peyton Graham, Roberto Campos, Dillon Dingler, Ty Madden, Dylan Smith, Reese Olsen, Jackson Jobe, Elvis Alvarado, Wilmer Flores, Cristian Santana… Probably left some players out, but I feel good that some of these guys can make it. Especially optimistic with the new focus on player development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I actually like the current system—not smart enough to know how it ranks, but it seems light years better than it was, say 5 years ago. And the point that we’ve had to rush players to the majors based on injuries and general ineptitude, has changed the current state. Prospects I like include Wenceel Perez, Josh Crouch, Parker Meadows, Justyn Malloy, Kerry Carpenter, Colt Keith, Jace Jung, Peyton Graham, Roberto Campos, Dillon Dingler, Ty Madden, Dylan Smith, Reese Olsen, Jackson Jobe, Elvis Alvarado, Wilmer Flores, Cristian Santana… Probably left some players out, but I feel good that some of these guys can make it. Especially optimistic with the new focus on player development. But the system should be better than 5 years ago. The Tigers have had the advantage of picking earlier in the draft than most other teams for over 5 seasons now. That is, of course, assuming picks were made well and prospects were added by other means and development occurred. Just because a couple of prospects made their way to the majors, it doesn’t excuse the Tigers to fall towards the bottom of the barrel if due diligence is happening elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Here's what I would find hilarious...: Harris's new development team... develops... Christian Santana, Roberto Campos, Jobe, Jung, Madden and several others into serious up-and-coming prospects... Is it: (A) Avila was crappy at drafting (it would appear not if these guys turn into a bunch of top 100 prospects or, even better, into real MLB players...)? (B) Crappy in the international market... (but Campos, Santana, any Avila-etc, that fits in here...)? (C) Terrible at development (it would appear so, although several of these guys are pretty young so how to tell what was natural ability/ growth versus the influence of Harris development versus Avila development...)? (D) Avila just not "on the ball enough" (or over his head to put it another way) to see this whole thing through? I will laugh if Harris builds a team loaded with Avila current and future Major Leaguers that he develops into an actual contending team. I'm ready and waiting for some serious LOL's coming up soon... But right now... I'm just confused. (E) Avila didn’t do well enough at his job and was justifiably released and we can go on with life hoping that Harris is the right person to run the organization going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, casimir said: But the system should be better than 5 years ago. The Tigers have had the advantage of picking earlier in the draft than most other teams for over 5 seasons now. That is, of course, assuming picks were made well and prospects were added by other means and development occurred. Just because a couple of prospects made their way to the majors, it doesn’t excuse the Tigers to fall towards the bottom of the barrel if due diligence is happening elsewhere. True, but I mostly excluded the first rounders, who for all intents and purposes are still raw (Mize, Tork. Greene, Manning). My only point is if we’re truly the worst in the majors, it doesn’t seem that bad to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 almost none of us have anything to base our opinions on of the tigers' system versus other teams' systems. we dont follow other teams like we do detroit. all we can see are results on the field. and those suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 12 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: True, but I mostly excluded the first rounders, who for all intents and purposes are still raw (Mize, Tork. Greene, Manning). My only point is if we’re truly the worst in the majors, it doesn’t seem that bad to me. I think I see what you are getting at... A year ago, the Tigers system was much more highly ranked. Yet when you remove the two players who most accounted for that rank (ie. Greene, Tork), you could argue that the system was actually *worse* then than it is now. When you account for the recovery of stock for players like Wenceel Perez and Parker Meadows and the emergence of Wilmer Flores and Colt Keith and better play from other prospects, I think that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Here's what I would find hilarious...: Harris's new development team... develops... Christian Santana, Roberto Campos, Jobe, Jung, Madden and several others into serious up-and-coming prospects... Is it: (A) Avila was crappy at drafting (it would appear not if these guys turn into a bunch of top 100 prospects or, even better, into real MLB players...)? (B) Crappy in the international market... (but Campos, Santana, any Avila-etc, that fits in here...)? (C) Terrible at development (it would appear so, although several of these guys are pretty young so how to tell what was natural ability/ growth versus the influence of Harris development versus Avila development...)? (D) Avila just not "on the ball enough" (or over his head to put it another way) to see this whole thing through? I will laugh if Harris builds a team loaded with Avila current and future Major Leaguers that he develops into an actual contending team. I'm ready and waiting for some serious LOL's coming up soon... But right now... I'm just confused. I do think Al Avila deserves a little bit of credit for making some good hires in their player development in the year prior to his firing... we can probably infer that the improved play/stock of a few guys may be partially their doing. But it was way too little and way too late. And for that, among many other things, his bus ticket out of town was well earned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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