Tiger Cubs (notes on the minors)

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Should Spencer Torkelson automatically make the team for Opening Day?

My guess is that he doesn't need to do much in ST to go North with the team, but if he doesn't hit once the season starts they won't give him all that much rope before sending thim to Toledo. No reason Harris should be particularly wed to him.

Edited March 3, 2023 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

Not comparing him to them necessarily as players but I put Tork in the category of the Christin Stewarts in the effect that they have/had no problem handling minor league pitching so not sure how much is to gain by going down there. 

Of course if they feel he is that bad that he is hurting the team they could send him down for the team's sake and not necessarily to try to benefit him. 

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Toddwert said:

https://twitter.com/EvanPetzold/status/1631349824388751367?s=20

 

Matt Manning, who thinks he fixed his curveball, reflected on his development with #Tigers as a prospect:

Manning: "The communication back then was like, 'If you want to get to the next level, pitch well.' Pitching well was having a low ERA. So I was like, 'Why would I throw anything else until I know they can beat my fastball?' I would throw that 70 times in a game." "I wish in the minor leagues they would have told me more. Just like, 'Go out and throw 50% curveballs. We don't care what happens, but you got to work on your curveball.' “Instead, I knew I could beat the minor leagues with my fastball, so that's all I did. Once I got to Triple-A and the big leagues, I couldn't just throw the fastball. I had to work on things. I felt behind in that sense. But I'm learning and getting better"

wonder why we couldnt develop good players

There are sooo many stories coming out just like this. It was far worse than we even feared.

[Tiger337]

Torkelson hasn't been consistently good at AAA, so I can see some benefit to him getting more time down there. I think his spring training would have to be a disaster for them to make that decision though.  

Edited March 3, 2023 by Tiger337

[chasfh]

I feel like people are giving up on TORK! too soon, especially after learning all we have about the dreadful state of development in this system. I’m basically a blank slate on the guy for this year, not expecting anything either way, which itself might be a little pessimistic. But in the end I would be truly shocked if his career simply crapped out from this point forward. I think there’s a better chance he ends up with a good career than Casey Mize does.

[Motor City Sonics]

Not giving up on him, but I think making him earn it rather than just making it automatic might be good for him. 

[chasfh]

25 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Not giving up on him, but I think making him earn it rather than just making it automatic might be good for him. 

I’m not at all worried about that.

[mtutiger]

I'm gonna need to see a bigger sample size this Spring before jumping to any conclusions on Tork.

[mtutiger]

14 hours ago, Edman85 said:

LOL at Dingbat ranking Bligh Madris in the Tigers Top 30 two months after being traded. Poor poor BA is stuck with that mess, because she is pretty much unfireable now as long as she plays the C card.

It's behind a paywall for me, but even if he was in org, Madris even being in the Top 30 seems... bold

[Toddwert]

48 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I feel like people are giving up on TORK! too soon, especially after learning all we have about the dreadful state of development in this system. I’m basically a blank slate on the guy for this year, not expecting anything either way, which itself might be a little pessimistic. But in the end I would be truly shocked if his career simply crapped out from this point forward. I think there’s a better chance he ends up with a good career than Casey Mize does.

I havent given up  I just want he to go down to AAA and get his crap together ... I really dont want to see him on the Tigers struggling most of the season  that cant be good for him

[mtutiger]

47 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

I havent given up  I just want he to go down to AAA and get his crap together ... I really dont want to see him on the Tigers struggling most of the season  that cant be good for him

By my count, he's one 1/11 this spring so far (.091 BA). If he managed to go 2/2 today, he would be 3/13, which is a .231 BA. Which illustrates how much things can change with such a small sample size.

We should wait to see more of Tork this spring before jumping to conclusions about whether he will struggle once the regular season starts.

Edited March 3, 2023 by mtutiger

[RandyMarsh]

He has also hit a couple of missiles and a 415ft flyball..all for outs. If those fall suddenly his line would look decent. 

[casimir]

To me it seems like Torkelson was the victim of some bad luck last season. 

Now, his strikeouts were probably higher than what we expected.  He walked a little more than league average.  If I remember it the right way, there was some criticism that he might have been a little too selective last season.  A little deeper look into how many pitches he took around the zone vs league average would be interesting to see (might be available on the internets somewheres).

BABIP was low while his exit velocity, hard hit and line drive rates are a bit higher.  He wasn't necessarily beating the ball into the ground.

My only worry is that he hasn't hit a tough streak until last season in his highly anticipated debut.  There were personal expectations and team expectations that simply were not met.  How does he handle that, what kind of instruction is he getting (technical and otherwise) to handle it.

[Toddwert]

41 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

By my count, he's one 1/11 this spring so far (.091 BA). If he managed to go 2/2 today, he would be 3/13, which is a .231 BA. Which illustrates how much things can change with such a small sample size.

We should wait to see more of Tork this spring before jumping to conclusions about whether he will struggle once the regular season starts.

I dont think you can just ignore last season 

[Motor City Sonics]

I think an issue for Tork is that he might not have been ready last year in April and then they dropped him into the middle of a horrible lineup.   I think they weighed on him quickly (would for anyone).   

 Is the lineup better this year?    Well, to be honest, could it be worse?   Is it even possible?  

Not looking forward to Tyler Nevin-Laga at first, but Andre Lipcius seems to be a wild card right now.  He rose quickly last year, having a nice spring so far and he can play everywhere.    That OBP seems to be exactly what the Tigers need (if he can do anything close to that at the next level).   He might be our new Harold Castro piece, but he actually takes pitches. 

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, Toddwert said:

I dont think you can just ignore last season 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that last season be ignored.

[Toddwert]

39 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that last season be ignored.

but you suggest that im only using 11 at bats this spring and not that its shows echos of his horrible 2022 season ..... thats my point 

[gehringer_2]

42 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that last season be ignored.

how about we don't ignore it but forget it.

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

but you suggest that im only using 11 at bats this spring and not that its shows echos of his horrible 2022 season ..... thats my point 

So if he ultimately shows improvement this Spring Training, should last season override any improved performance in determining whether he makes the team?

Edited March 3, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

The thing about baseball is that hitting is always a 'what have you done lately' thing. If you are hitting, you will play - NOW. So on the plus side for Tork, if he hits this spring last season is immediately irrelevant - until he stops hitting. THEN you look at his overall when deciding how much good it might do to send him to AAA.

[Toddwert]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

So if he ultimately shows improvement this Spring Training, should last season override any improved performance in determining whether he makes the team?

how much of an improvement? hits .220 over .203 and still strikes out alot and looks lost no you send him down

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The thing about baseball is that hitting is always a 'what have you done lately' thing. If you are hitting, you will play - NOW. So on the plus side for Tork, if he hits this spring last season is immediately irrelevant - until he stops hitting. THEN you look at his overall when deciding how much good it might do to send him to AAA.

Exactly. You maybe account some for last year, but it ultimately comes down to how he looks in Spring Training.

And we are now 12 ABs in.

[Toddwert]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Exactly. You maybe account some for last year, but it ultimately comes down to how he looks in Spring Training.

And we are now 12 ABs in.

ok then when does it becomes a concern that its just who he is ?.... we have 404 PA of a .203 hitter im not saying he cant redeem themselve believe me id rather he was hitting 

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

ok then when does it becomes a concern that its just who he is ?

I'm concerned about that now lol.

But I'm not calling for him to go to Toledo when we are only 12 ABs into Spring Training

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

ok then when does it becomes a concern that its just who he is ?.... we have 404 PA of a .203 hitter im not saying he cant redeem themselve believe me id rather he was hitting 

If he's a bust, he's a bust. You usually don't know for  sure untill  at least 1000 PA.  Wrong time to worry though - he's hit the ball on the screws at least once in each game so far I think. Already has a 106mph LD today.

Edited March 3, 2023 by gehringer_2