Tiger Cubs (notes on the minors)

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

[Tenacious D]

Keith Law in The Athletic has Colt Keith at #5 and Parker Meadows at #6 in his top 20 rookies to impact in ‘25.  In his write-ups, he’s bullish about each.

[theroundsquare]

He's attempting to set our expectations high so we are disappointed because he hates the Tigers and hates Tigers fans, too

[LongLiveMaroth]

Interesting tidbit about Troy Melton in the Freep hitting home the player development:

So, where exactly did he come from?

That’s probably the most interesting part of this story.

Because the Tigers didn’t find him as much as they have created him.

A few weeks ago, as I talked to Melton outside the Tigers minor league clubhouse in Lakeland, I asked a simple question: “Would it be fair to say the Tigers took a lump of clay and they’ve transformed you?”

“Absolutely,” he said, smiling. “Everything I do is new.”

[chasfh]

21 minutes ago, theroundsquare said:

He's attempting to set our expectations high so we are disappointed because he hates the Tigers and hates Tigers fans, too

Can't win, don't try!

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

Interesting tidbit about Troy Melton in the Freep hitting home the player development:

So, where exactly did he come from?

That’s probably the most interesting part of this story.

Because the Tigers didn’t find him as much as they have created him.

A few weeks ago, as I talked to Melton outside the Tigers minor league clubhouse in Lakeland, I asked a simple question: “Would it be fair to say the Tigers took a lump of clay and they’ve transformed you?”

“Absolutely,” he said, smiling. “Everything I do is new.”

Al Avila deserves all the credit for picking Melton in the draft. The only thing the pitching development people did was break him down completely and rebuild him from scratch. They would have never been able to do that if Al hadn't picked Melton for them in the first place. Al set them up to succeed. He's a genius. Rehire Al. 😉

[Tiger337]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:21 AM, chasfh said:

Al Avila deserves all the credit for picking Melton in the draft. The only thing the pitching development people did was break him down completely and rebuild him from scratch. They would have never been able to do that if Al hadn't picked Melton for them in the first place. Al set them up to succeed. He's a genius. Rehire Al. 😉

Maybe the Avila administration was able to see his innate talent and then the Harris administration knew how to take that talent and transform it.  Then again, maybe he' s not that good and won't succeed in the majors.  But that would be Avila's fault.  😃   

[chasfh]

50 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Maybe the Avila administration was able to see his innate talent and then the Harris administration knew how to take that talent and transform it.  Then again, maybe he' s not that good and won't succeed in the majors.  But that would be Avila's fault.  😃   

In a world where anything is possible … 😁

[Tenacious D]

I give Harris credit that he didn’t let his ego get in the way and blow up/move the assets that Avila accumulated through the draft (at least not yet). For better or worse, this is Avila’s team and likely will be for the next season or two.  Hard to separate the innate talent that was drafted from the skills development each has subsequently acquired.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

I give Harris credit that he didn’t let his ego get in the way and blow up/move the assets that Avila accumulated through the draft (at least not yet). For better or worse, this is Avila’s team and likely will be for the next season or two.  Hard to separate the innate talent that was drafted from the skills development each has subsequently acquired.

Just to be clear, I like Harris more than Avila and the next Tigers playoff team will be more Harris than Avila.  I just think they glorification of Harris and dismissing of Avila by some fans is a little much.  

[Edman85]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:21 AM, chasfh said:

Al Avila deserves all the credit for picking Melton in the draft. The only thing the pitching development people did was break him down completely and rebuild him from scratch. They would have never been able to do that if Al hadn't picked Melton for them in the first place. Al set them up to succeed. He's a genius. Rehire Al. 😉

I doubt Avila had much say in drafting Melton.

[Tiger337]

49 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I doubt Avila had much say in drafting Melton.

I knew you were going to say that!

[Edman85]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

I knew you were going to say that!

I mean, I doubt Harris had any say in drafting... say... Carson Rucker.

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I mean, I doubt Harris had any say in drafting... say... Carson Rucker.

I agree.  It's a matter of them hiring the right guys to make make those decisions.  

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I agree.  It's a matter of them hiring the right guys to make make those decisions.  

And putting those front office execs in position to succeed

[mtutiger]

Avila wasn't good at his job and earned his way out of town, but I do think some combination of relatively successful drafts at the end of his tenure and the changes he made in player development deserve recognition. His personal role in the draft aside (as Eddie has said, PBOs aren't that involved), it shouldn't be that controversial to take the full view.

I also think a lot about what the national press said about this job right after he was fired.... I recall RJ Anderson from CBS Sports basically said it was a **** job and that this org would struggle to find anyone decent to take it, and I suspect a lot of folks in the baseball world probably agreed. Yet they ended up landing Scott Harris (who wasn't even on most peoples radar and who had been sought after by other orgs), who apparently saw a canvas that he felt he could build off of.

Harris deserves a lot of credit as well, he's obviously added additional new personnel (ie. Mark Connor, Rob Metzler) to the org as well.... but it shouldn't be hard to use a little nuance looking at the situation.

Edited March 16 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

And putting those front office execs in position to succeed

That sounds like management speak.  Not my thing.  Probably correct, but impossible for me to know which ones are good at it.  

Edited March 16 by Tiger337

[1984Echoes]

In its simplest terms:

I think Avila did a great job at getting the ball rolling towards modernizing the Tigers organization, including hiring such key people as Ryan Garko, AJ Hinch, etc., starting up a data analytics program, etc. The Org was starting to draft better players with skills that translated to a higher level than his early GM years, as a result. Including several later round pitchers and a couple later round position players.

But he didn't come from an analytics background and was therefore mostly behind the 8-ball, with a general lack of understanding on how to apply the analytical data within the organization. This, and many other flaws, says that the bottom line with Avila was that he just wasn't good enough to get the Org all the way to where it needed to be.

On Harris: he was able to see an Org that had laid the groundwork, and just needed the right person to get the Org to the finish line. The Tigers chose him, and he chose the Tigers.

I think Harris is the right guy to get us over the finish line, and Avila was not that guy.

 

 

 

Edited March 16 by 1984Echoes

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Avila wasn't good at his job and earned his way out of town, but I do think some combination of relatively successful drafts at the end of his tenure and the changes he made in player development deserve recognition. His personal role in the draft aside (as Eddie has said, PBOs aren't that involved), it shouldn't be that controversial to take the full view.

👍🏼

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I also think a lot about what the national press said about this job right after he was fired.... I recall RJ Anderson from CBS Sports basically said it was a **** job and that this org would struggle to find anyone decent to take it, and I suspect a lot of folks in the baseball world probably agreed. Yet they ended up landing Scott Harris (who wasn't even on most peoples radar and who had been sought after by other orgs), who apparently saw a canvas that he felt he could build off of.

I disagree with RJ Anderson from CBS Sports. The Tigers GM job was not a **** job, and the org would not struggle to find people to take it. There would always be hundreds of people who would take the job practically sight unseen, since there are only thirty major league GM jobs in the whole world. They are great jobs for people who are good at it, regardless of the team. Avila was simply very bad at it.

Before you get me wrong, I’m not saying anything like Al Avila is a bad man. I’d bet he’s good to his family, goes to church, gives to charity, loves kittens and puppies, all that. But speaking only in professional terms, he was objectively wrong for the job that he Peter-principled his way into, possibly made worse by the likelihood that he campaigned Mike for the job he was grossly unqualified for.

[1776]

Regarding Al’s disposition, I understand that Al Avila never failed to stop at the Girl Scout cookie sales tables and spent generously there.

[alex]

9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

In its simplest terms:

I think Avila did a great job at getting the ball rolling towards modernizing the Tigers organization, including hiring such key people as Ryan Garko, AJ Hinch, etc., starting up a data analytics program, etc. The Org was starting to draft better players with skills that translated to a higher level than his early GM years, as a result. Including several later round pitchers and a couple later round position players.

But he didn't come from an analytics background and was therefore mostly behind the 8-ball, with a general lack of understanding on how to apply the analytical data within the organization. This, and many other flaws, says that the bottom line with Avila was that he just wasn't good enough to get the Org all the way to where it needed to be.

On Harris: he was able to see an Org that had laid the groundwork, and just needed the right person to get the Org to the finish line. The Tigers chose him, and he chose the Tigers.

I think Harris is the right guy to get us over the finish line, and Avila was not that guy.

 

 

 

All well put.

I will add, IMHO, he (AA) was 'trained' a certain way for a long time - hence he was not earlier on with the changes the league had made (biomechanics, the sciences, player development, etc.).

He also had most all 'old school' types working for him and was loyal to a fault and this put the org behind the 8 ball big time. Yet, he did see the changes and tried, like you mentioned, to move forward (Garko, Hinch, etc.). With said the org. could not develop much in terms of offensive minded players and still relied on 'pure power' types and guys who "could run like gazelles" as he often put it - but development and baseball quotient identifying was not in the cards at all.

I do feel AA could ID some players for sure - but overall the people in the organization  were too far out of touch with the modern methods and again development was poor.

[SoCalTiger]

I genuinely liked Al Avila and also like that he is not the PBO. As for Harris,  so far so good. 

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

I genuinely liked Al Avila and also like that he is not the PBO. As for Harris,  so far so good. 

I liked him.  He seemed as if he was a friendly person and was very open (maybe too much).  I also think he collected a number of good prospects and refused to trade any of them away and that is helping them now.  Overall, he wasn't a very good GM though.  I think Harris is going to be a lot better, but it's too early to know how good.  His team having some real success at the MLB level would be a good start.  

[LongLiveMaroth]