Tiger Cubs (notes on the minors)

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Tork 2-3 with a BB an no Ks today. He's starting to pick it up the last few games after the dreadful start in Toledo. Granted keeping tabs on what he is doing in Toledo and celebrating a decent week down there isn't exactly what me or any of us hoped we'd be doing at this point but it's still nice to see him making a little progress.

Has he engaged the services of Jeimer Candelario’s personal hitting coach?

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Same as it's always been. You don't want your young pitchers racking up 130 innings in starts, but I don't really see pitchers being healthier today than the used to be.  All the protective measures don't seem to be keeping pitchers healthier.  Medical advances are healing pitchers a lot better than the old days, but they are still getting hurt in great numbers. 

I think it’s because the nature of pitching has changed, basically how hard pitchers work to get swing and miss on every single pitch.

[Edman85]

10 hours ago, microline133 said:

Identify the guys that can get outs at the big league level, get them there as quick as reasonably possible, and use them how you need to until they break. That's the strategy and that's the reality. Anything else is all bull shit.

If you can use biomechanics and high speed cameras to detect fatigue and high risk markers, by all means, back off for a bit.

But the Verducci Effect has been debunked. Shutting guys down for a couple weeks in the middle of July for the purposes of limiting innings is likely counterproductive. 

Meanwhile, Jackson Jobe just turned 20 and is effectively getting reliever innings in Low A. What good does that do?

Edited August 4, 2022 by Edman85

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I think it’s because the nature of pitching has changed, basically how hard pitchers work to get swing and miss on every single pitch.

A couple of trends along this line I think. First is that my impression is that % of hard (non-curve) breaking balls thrown just keeps increasing - we seem to have a team philosophy on the Tigers for instance that says throw 50% non fastballs and most guys don't have much in the way of curves or changes so that mean sliders or maybe splits. The other is that few guys work up and down the velo ladder when they do throw their fastball. That can be almost as effective as throwing more breaking balls but reason would say is lower strain. For example,  the young Verlander would work his fast ball anywhere from 91-99.  He still had batters worried about 99 on every pitch. He's an extreme example,  but you shouldn't have to throw every pitch at max effort to get the effect of hitters being worrying about being late. Hard hit foul balls are just strikes.

And to your thesis, this is done to get more Ks in response to the rabbit ball. Until something persuades me otherwise those are my best guesses.

The one other factor is how much leeway the league allows on the outside part of the K zone. If you consistently give pitchers the outside black, you are also making sliders relatively more valuable.

[Shinzaki]

13 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Tork 2-3 with a BB an no Ks today. He's starting to pick it up the last few games after the dreadful start in Toledo. Granted keeping tabs on what he is doing in Toledo and celebrating a decent week down there isn't exactly what me or any of us hoped we'd be doing at this point but it's still nice to see him making a little progress.

Went 1-3 with a BB in the ft end of the DH...maybe he's coming around

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

A couple of trends along this line I think. First is that my impression is that % of hard (non-curve) breaking balls thrown just keeps increasing - we seem to have a team philosophy on the Tigers for instance that says throw 50% non fastballs and most guys don't have much in the way of curves or changes so that mean sliders or maybe splits. The other is that few guys work up and down the velo ladder when they do throw their fastball. That can be almost as effective as throwing more breaking balls but reason would say is lower strain. For example,  the young Verlander would work his fast ball anywhere from 91-99.  He still had batters worried about 99 on every pitch. He's an extreme example,  but you shouldn't have to throw every pitch at max effort to get the effect of hitters being worrying about being late. Hard hit foul balls are just strikes.

And to your thesis, this is done to get more Ks in response to the rabbit ball. Until something persuades me otherwise those are my best guesses.

The one other factor is how much leeway the league allows on the outside part of the K zone. If you consistently give pitchers the outside black, you are also making sliders relatively more valuable.

I don't know. I always thought the value sliders are meant to fool hitters into thinking it's a fastball until the last moment. If it's about stealing a strike off the plate, that would seem to mean a four-seamer aimed there that the batter thinks will be a ball but the umpire rings him up on.

If the goal is swing and miss, then the slider, the split, anything that darts at the end, really, are all valuable for making the batter think it's going to pass through the zone, but that puts high pressure on all the ligaments when thrown repeatedly. Deaden the ball and the pitcher can, at least to down-the-order hitters, serve it up saying, here you go, hit it and get yourself out. They can throw less taxing pitches like four-seamers, two-seamers, changeups and the like more often, and not worry so much if they give up even hard contact. They'll have to pitch Juan Soto and Aaron Judge the same way, of course. They just wouldn't have to pitch the Robbie Grossmans of the world (at least the 2021 version) as though they are Soto or Judge.

[mtutiger]

Godspeed Kids... hope the org doesn't **** up your hitting abilities lol

[RandyMarsh]

10 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Godspeed Kids... hope the org doesn't **** up your hitting abilities lol

Despite it being effective at every level he has played I'm waiting for them to change Jung's stance because of how funky he holds the bat, he will then predictably struggle cause it doesn't come natural to him. 

[Tenacious D]

30 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Godspeed Kids... hope the org doesn't **** up your hitting abilities lol

it will be interesting to see where everyone plays and how often.  We already have Santana and Sequera at 2B/SS.  Wonder if Graham will see time at 3B and OF?

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

A couple of trends along this line I think. First is that my impression is that % of hard (non-curve) breaking balls thrown just keeps increasing - we seem to have a team philosophy on the Tigers for instance that says throw 50% non fastballs and most guys don't have much in the way of curves or changes so that mean sliders or maybe splits. The other is that few guys work up and down the velo ladder when they do throw their fastball. That can be almost as effective as throwing more breaking balls but reason would say is lower strain. For example,  the young Verlander would work his fast ball anywhere from 91-99.  He still had batters worried about 99 on every pitch. He's an extreme example,  but you shouldn't have to throw every pitch at max effort to get the effect of hitters being worrying about being late. Hard hit foul balls are just strikes.

And to your thesis, this is done to get more Ks in response to the rabbit ball. Until something persuades me otherwise those are my best guesses.

The one other factor is how much leeway the league allows on the outside part of the K zone. If you consistently give pitchers the outside black, you are also making sliders relatively more valuable.

Yes... and to your point...

Why aren't we seeing heavy (HEAVY!) Changeup usage lately?

Wasn't that Fernando Rodney's ticket? A great fastball, but an even better changeup? Mix in a few curves and sliders but dominate with the changeup and that would be a lot less stress on the arm... methinks.

[1984Echoes]

44 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Despite it being effective at every level he has played I'm waiting for them to change Jung's stance because of how funky he holds the bat, he will then predictably struggle cause it doesn't come natural to him. 

I don't think they need to change his stance based on how he holds his bat.

On the other hand, if he had a disastrously high and long-held leg kick... sure... but just holding the bat?

Nah...

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Yes... and to your point...

Why aren't we seeing heavy (HEAVY!) Changeup usage lately?

Wasn't that Fernando Rodney's ticket? A great fastball, but an even better changeup? Mix in a few curves and sliders but dominate with the changeup and that would be a lot less stress on the arm... methinks.

Certainly it must be true that the slider is the easier breaking pitch to learn to throw and control, because we constantly see guys struggle with the curve and change and settle back to the slider. But you wonder if there is a vicious feed back loop. Pitchers are throwing fewer innings to try to protect their arms, but maybe that means they don't throw enough innings to perfect the more difficult pitches that might protect their arms? I'm not putting that out there as any kind of fact, just as speculation about the kind of bad feedback loop that must be operating somewhere to have gotten the situation with pitching injuries to where it is.

Edited August 4, 2022 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

Speaking of which...

I know this is from the game thread... but...

Springs has a killer changeup...

[mtutiger]

here come the post draft transactions

[Edman85]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

here come the post draft transactions

A bunch of guys released from Toledo: Nivaldo Rodriguez, Brady Pollicelli, Jesus Liranzo

[RatkoVarda]

Toledo has one OF (Carpenter)

[mtutiger]

56 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Toledo has one OF (Carpenter)

Brendon Davis can play the corners, that makes two. They are shy a starting CF.

Ground softening for a Parker Meadows bump up? 

Edited August 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[RandyMarsh]

Perhaps a Baddoo demotion is on the horizon.

[gehringer_2]

so fare I see three adds to the Hens - Garneau coming off rehab, and Bergner and Lipcious promoted from Erie.

[RatkoVarda]

30 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Perhaps a Baddoo demotion is on the horizon.

maybe but giving DET ABs to Willi and Victor over Baddoo and Daz seems dumb

[RatkoVarda]

Kingston Liniak released

[kdog]

Liniak got an over slot deal (900K on a 533K slot). He signed in 2018. Garko is clearing out the slugs from Avila and Chadd's disastrous rebuild.

[Longgone]

2 hours ago, kdog said:

Liniak got an over slot deal (900K on a 533K slot). He signed in 2018. Garko is clearing out the slugs from Avila and Chadd's disastrous rebuild.

Also a function of the reduction in farm teams. Two years ago the Tigers had three short season clubs, now they have one, so when you add the drafted players, there's no room, people gotta go, up or out.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Longgone

[Jim Cowan]

2 hours ago, kdog said:

Liniak got an over slot deal (900K on a 533K slot). He signed in 2018. Garko is clearing out the slugs from Avila and Chadd's disastrous rebuild.

He's been in the organization for years without anyone noticing.

[Jim Cowan]

Policelli and Robson were teammates in the GCL in 2016.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=6dd0ab6a