Tiger Cubs (notes on the minors)

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I have to guess the assumption neither could stay at short is what led Al to look elsewhere, but that still doesn't explain how you get to a HS pitcher from there.

Or as, I think it was chas that suggested it earlier...

Al fell in love with spin rates.

[buddha]

23 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said:

Also should be giving credit to Al for Keith, Flores and Olson. All great pickups for low prices.

blind squirrels and nuts.

and those guys havent done anything at the major league level.  lets talk then.

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Or as, I think it was chas that suggested it earlier...

Al fell in love with spin rates.

exactly.  he just heard about spin rates and found jobe.

[mtutiger]

21 minutes ago, buddha said:

and those guys havent done anything at the major league level.  

Neither has Marcelo Mayer...

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Neither has Marcelo Mayer...

you can die on al avila hill if you want.  i'd rather not.

[gehringer_2]

34 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Or as, I think it was chas that suggested it earlier...

Al fell in love with spin rates.

the thing about spin rates is it depends on the pitch. Great spin rate on your FB and you are Justin Verlander. Great spin rate on your slider at 18 and you're probably on the surgical table by 21.  😱🤔

[mtutiger]

Just now, buddha said:

you can die on al avila hill if you want.  i'd rather not.

Hey, I would have preferred they taken Mayer myself, said it many times. 

But as much as he is referenced around here, he still isn't a guarantee either.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Hey, I would have preferred they taken Mayer myself, said it many times. 

But as much as he is referenced around here, he still isn't a guarantee either.

no kidding.  but neither are any of the prospects cruzer brought up.  

every al avila prospect should be looked at with a massive grain of salt because his track record is terrible.  

were fans.  we dont know shit.  the only person in here who knows shit is micro.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

no kidding.  but neither are any of the prospects cruzer brought up.  

Never said they were. Just maybe suggesting that bringing up Marcelo Mayer every time there's a discussion about Jackson Jobe doesn't mean much when neither player has played beyond High A.

[buddha]

6 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Never said they were. Just maybe suggesting that bringing up Marcelo Mayer every time there's a discussion about Jackson Jobe doesn't mean much when neither player has played beyond High A.

i havent brought up marcelo mayer once.

honestly, if avila drafted mayer, i would have the same thoughts about mayer.

avila was bad at his job.  anyone can see that, even those who bring up some fringe AA player they think will magically be a good major leaguer because he had a nice year last year.

will avila get lucky once in a while?  sure.  like with skubal.  but 9 1/2 times out of 10 he didnt.  and wont.

lets see what the new regime can do with the players he drafted.  hopefully turn lemons in lemonade.

[casimir]

8 hours ago, buddha said:

i havent brought up marcelo mayer once.

honestly, if avila drafted mayer, i would have the same thoughts about mayer.

avila was bad at his job.  anyone can see that, even those who bring up some fringe AA player they think will magically be a good major leaguer because he had a nice year last year.

will avila get lucky once in a while?  sure.  like with skubal.  but 9 1/2 times out of 10 he didnt.  and wont.

lets see what the new regime can do with the players he drafted.  hopefully turn lemons in lemonade.

Ideally the Tigers actually drafted well under Avila, but didn't develop the talent in the farm well.  If Harris' crew is good at both, maybe there's a quicker turnaround than most dread it will be.

[chasfh]

Now that a new development regime is in place, I am definitely not writing off Jackson Jobe yet.

[gehringer_2]

From some of what is coming out now you have to wonder if the Tigers had gotten *too* aggressive about trying to change a few guys. Baseball players operate so near the bleeding edge of their body's and brain's limits that I think that sometimes even if a guy in theory *should* be doing something differently, it may not work for him in practice. It's a fine line coaching staffs have to walk between helping guys and screwing them up and no staff is going to get it right every time, you just hope you can put a staff in place that gets it right more often.

For the Tigers, it appears they were on the wrong side of the line for Faedo and I'm guessing Torkelson as well (and possibly Coolbaugh at the parent club in general) but OTOH, to be fair, they also had several guys like Lipcius, Perez, Brieske, Wentz, and Meadows make a lot of progress last season.

Edited February 23, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

30 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Now that a new development regime is in place, I am definitely not writing off Jackson Jobe yet.

The caveat being that the strikeout numbers were still not where you'd want them, with Jobe it has to be mentioned that he did pitch better in the second half of the year. And I wonder if some of that does have to do with the new development regime (ie, Garko, others) becoming more established in the org.

Overall, maybe the contrast with Mayer hasn't improved (especially as various entities release rankings), but it's not like Jobe has gotten *worse* as a player since drafting him, he has shown improvement and glimpses of his talent. It just remains to be seen if the staff can continue to work with him and make sure that he realizes his potential.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

From some of what is coming out now you have to wonder if the Tigers had gotten *too* aggressive about trying to change a few guys. Baseball players operate so near the bleeding edge of their body's and brain's limits that I think that sometimes even if a guy in theory *should* be doing something differently, it may not work for him in practice. It's a fine line coaching staffs have to walk between helping guys and screwing them up and no staff is going to get it right every time, you just hope you can put a staff in place that gets it right more often.

The Faedo thing (how the last regime wanted him to change his delivery, new set letting him go back to the way he was doing it before entering the org) sort of reminds me of what we have often heard about the KC Royals during the Dayton Moore years, how they would draft pitchers and force them to use pitches that they'd never used before. And unsurprisingly, they have had suboptimal results developing pitchers

It's more complex than this in reality, but in general it seems best to make changes to cater to players preexisting strengths versus just completely just changing their makeup.

Edited February 23, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

It's more complex than this in reality,

The one thing you can always rely on.

[Tigermojo]

After the top 15 prospects everyone has the same ratings anyway. One writer could put someone at 70 and another at 100.  Nobody knows who will reach their potential or who will be injured. If Greene and Torkelson were not promoted last year, they would be in the top 15 prospects. Don't get too excited about anyone, it's performance in the majors that counts.

[SoCalTiger]

In summary it’s a good thing Al is gone but too bad he didn’t leave sooner. But hope springs eternal and we just might surprise on the up side in 2023. 

[chasfh]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:53 AM, SoCalTiger said:

In summary it’s a good thing Al is gone but too bad he didn’t leave sooner. But hope springs eternal and we just might surprise on the up side in 2023. 

That's what I'm hoping for: upside surprise this season. I think there's a good chance we get that, too.

I am not at all a gambling man, but I thought I saw in the past few days the over-under for Tigers wins this season is something in the range of 66.5 to 69.5. I would take the over on any of those for something in three figures.

[CMRivdogs]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:38 AM, 1776 said:

Not sure where to put this ….

MLB is is currently communicating to the different minor league park/facility owners that the funding and plans to upgrade to MLB required  standards will be due in 2023. The Durham Bulls (AAA) have determined that in order to meet the MLB demands the costs will be $10 million. The Asheville Tourists (A+) will be looking at a $30 million tab. Asheville is one of the oldest parks in use today. It’s a great fan experience. Some of the Asheville money will go for upgrading the fan experience that current ownership wants in addition to the the MLB core requirements. I’m sure many teams will face these challenges in the coming year. I could imagine that some teams may even be forced to relocate at some point if city and town officials don’t approve of spending money on ballparks. As I understand it, MLB is putting zero dollars into this. 

Doing a quick in and out of Durham with an appointment at Duke Medical Center. Our hotel is almost next to the ballpark. We took a quick peek before dinner, ballpark looks great. I understand Duke has been playing some of their games there. From what I understand they needed to upgrade the clubhouse, not sure what else. There is still construction street side.

Great location. Very walkable neighborhood with what looks like good restaurants. Nana's was fantastic. There will probably be a road trip in our future this summer.

Meanwhile Richmond city council has approved a new ballpark in the same location of the current one (and the one before that). I haven't seen much of current plans but there is talk of hotels and restaurants on the property. From what I understand they need to upgrade the clubhouse and training facilities by this spring. Word is they plan to incorporate that into the new facility. They are also hoping for a waiver with the new facility in the works for 2024.

Meanwhile Richmond City council has approved a new ballpark. Same location of the old one. They say it will be 

 

[LongLiveMaroth]

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/tigers/

New top 30 from MLB - Jobe, Jung, Flores, Keith, Madden are your top 5

[Toddwert]

https://twitter.com/EvanPetzold/status/1631349824388751367?s=20

 

Matt Manning, who thinks he fixed his curveball, reflected on his development with #Tigers as a prospect:

Manning: "The communication back then was like, 'If you want to get to the next level, pitch well.' Pitching well was having a low ERA. So I was like, 'Why would I throw anything else until I know they can beat my fastball?' I would throw that 70 times in a game." "I wish in the minor leagues they would have told me more. Just like, 'Go out and throw 50% curveballs. We don't care what happens, but you got to work on your curveball.' “Instead, I knew I could beat the minor leagues with my fastball, so that's all I did. Once I got to Triple-A and the big leagues, I couldn't just throw the fastball. I had to work on things. I felt behind in that sense. But I'm learning and getting better"

wonder why we couldnt develop good players

[Edman85]

LOL at Dingbat ranking Bligh Madris in the Tigers Top 30 two months after being traded. Poor poor BA is stuck with that mess, because she is pretty much unfireable now as long as she plays the C card.

[Tenacious D]

4 hours ago, Edman85 said:

LOL at Dingbat ranking Bligh Madris in the Tigers Top 30 two months after being traded. Poor poor BA is stuck with that mess, because she is pretty much unfireable now as long as she plays the C card.

Did I miss the link to the BA Tigers list?

[Motor City Sonics]

Should Spencer Torkelson automatically make the team for Opening Day?