Tigermojo Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 For shame! All of you forgot Jake The Rake/defensive wiz behind the plate Rogers. Recognize! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Yes Vierling and Baddoo will be factors for sure. And Jake Rogers needs to catch 140 games. He'll be 29 for Pete's sake, he will play good defense and hit 25 home runs and he should be doing that this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: For shame! All of you forgot Jake The Rake/defensive wiz behind the plate Rogers. Recognize! Not so much forgot - more like promoted out of 'cub' status. He is the #1 catcher on the ML team and becoming a top half catcher in the league, even if for some reason his own team doesn't talk about him in those terms. Edited June 30, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 11:07 PM, gehringer_2 said: For me it depends on whether they are pulling the plug on JHM as a 3b. if they are, then fine, you have 2 3b's to give time to: Keith and Maton, and since you want to give Keith time at 2B as well, no problem. The Tigers are so desperate for a competent 3B that if you still believe against all odds Maton can improve there, fine. But that means you are giving up reps you could be giving to a younger, higher ceiling (supposedly) player, so I hope they are pretty confident that JHM will never be a ML 3B. One thing I don't understand about Maton is that he was primarily a middle infielder throughout his minor league career, but has mostly been talked about as a third baseman with the Tigers. Is that based only on need or is it because he wasn't a good enough middle infielder and has now been moved along the defensive spectrum? If it's the latter, then maybe he really does need reps at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Yes Vierling and Baddoo will be factors for sure. And Jake Rogers needs to catch 140 games. He'll be 29 for Pete's sake, he will play good defense and hit 25 home runs and he should be doing that this year. I think maybe he doesn't play more because they want to keep his arm healthy after TJ surgery. They do the same thing with pitchers. Catchers, of course, don't use their arms as much as pitchers but he did get injured as a catcher and it's possible he is not built to play more than half time at the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: One thing I don't understand about Maton is that he was primarily a middle infielder throughout his minor league career, but has mostly been talked about as a third baseman with the Tigers. Is that based only on need or is it because he wasn't a good enough middle infielder and has now been moved along the defensive spectrum? If it's the latter, then maybe he really does need reps at 3B. except that the skill 'progression' around the IF is not completely linear. A SS needs more range than a 3B so maybe you try a SS with limited range at 3B, but a 3b needs more 1st move quickness than a SS so not every adequate SS is going to be adequate at 3rd. Peralta was the case study there. People assumed that he should have been better at 3rd than SS because he appeared range limited, he wasn't good at 3rd. To my eye, Maton does not have that quick 1st move - esp to his right. If he can't play SS then if you think the bat will eventually prove out and you want him, you have to find room at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: except that the skill 'progression' around the IF is not completely linear. A SS needs more range than a 3B so maybe you try a SS with limited range at 3B, but a 3b needs more 1st move quickness than a SS so not every adequate SS is going to be adequate at 3rd. Peralta was the case study there. People assumed that he should have been better at 3rd than SS because he appeared range limited, he wasn't good at 3rd. To my eye, Maton does not have that quick 1st move - esp to his right. If he can't play SS then if you think the bat will eventually prove out and you want him, you have to find room at 2B. There is room at second base, although neither of the two most obvious solutions have much played there much this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 Malloy and Keith both homer in the 1st inning for Toledo tonight. 🎉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Malloy and Keith both homer in the 1st inning for Toledo tonight. 🎉 Nobody told the manager Maton hits fifth. Move Keith up to third in the order for more ABs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 also a good outing for Wilmer Flores. Wolves lose 1-0 but Wilmer went 6IP 0R 3H 2BB 5K 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Homers for Malloy and Keith so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 32 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Homers for Malloy and Keith so far. Unstoppable. They're making their case for sooner rather than later... Can we wait until the September callups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Unstoppable. They're making their case for sooner rather than later... Can we wait until the September callups? Keith finishes 3/5 Malloy 2/5 Parker brings up the rear with a single and SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Malloy is on a 5 game hit streak now in which, significantly, he has drawn 4 walks. The walks had sort of disappeared during the first part of June, for the first time in his career, but now he has his OBP back up around .400. His slash line at Triple A is now virtually identical to the rest of his MILB career, and 13 home runs in a half season is a nice progression for him, his career high is 17 last year and 10 of those were in High A. So, it looks like the bat is real and has stabilized around .400 OBP and .450 SLG. He played left field tonight, Keith played third and Maton played second, where he belongs. So it looks like Malloy is not being anointed as the third baseman, which is disappointing. I was hoping to see him called up at the All Star break and play third every day, but if all he's going to do is play left and DH then I'm in no hurry to call him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: He played left field tonight, Keith played third and Maton played second, where he belongs. So it looks like Malloy is not being anointed as the third baseman, which is disappointing. I was hoping to see him called up at the All Star break and play third every day, but if all he's going to do is play left and DH then I'm in no hurry to call him up. OTOH, if he's going to be an OF, then less need to extend any apprenticeship in the minors if the bat is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Just now, gehringer_2 said: OTOH, if he's going to be an OF, then less need to extend any apprenticeship in the minors if the bat is ready. Yes that's true. It's just that the need at 3B is so obvious and it would have been nice if he could have solved it for 7 years. And as a RH hitter in left or DH he's going to be on the short end of one of Hinch's platoons, there's no doubt about that, so leaving him in Toledo is attractive in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 When I saw Malloy in ST, I was a bit surprised at his physique. He’s a bit stocky—I think full time DH is probably a few years out. I like the idea of Keith at 3B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 19 hours ago, Tiger337 said: One thing I don't understand about Maton is that he was primarily a middle infielder throughout his minor league career, but has mostly been talked about as a third baseman with the Tigers. Is that based only on need or is it because he wasn't a good enough middle infielder and has now been moved along the defensive spectrum? If it's the latter, then maybe he really does need reps at 3B. Well, but here's the flip side to it. There are two other 3B of varying degree in Toledo right now. Sure, they may be used at other positions and there is the DH, too. But, Maton is already 27. The bat is suspect right now. He has played defensively elsewhere. I'd prioritize reps at 3B for Maton/Keith over Maton simply because they seem to have the longer window of potential with the team. 3B can easily be handled by the 2 of them and they would have time at their other positions. Maton can play middle infield in Toledo. Who knows, maybe there's a bit of familiar comfort on the defensive side that translates to the bat. I guess the scary thing is, maybe there isn't a defensive 3B to be had among the trio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: Yes that's true. It's just that the need at 3B is so obvious and it would have been nice if he could have solved it for 7 years. And as a RH hitter in left or DH he's going to be on the short end of one of Hinch's platoons, there's no doubt about that, so leaving him in Toledo is attractive in that case. Well now, let's think about next season. Greene in OF everyday. Carpenter's bat is in the lineup vs RHPs, its just a matter if he can get more playing time and how much he uses a fielding mitt. I think there can be a spot on the roster for Baddoo, but he's still not a guarantee at this point. Vierling probably falls into that category, also. MeadowsP, is questionable at this point. But if they go with that incumbency, there's probably an OF/DH of Green, Carpenter, Baddoo, and MeadowsP vs RHPs and Vierling is going to play vs LHPs. Easily there's room for another RHB in that mix. Now at 3B, Maton is obviously having issues on both sides of the ball. McKinstry has slowed down and seems more suited to a bench role, although one that could see some regular playing time. I don't think either (and we could roll Short and Ibanez in here, too) are everyday or even everyday vs RHPs type of 3B. So there's an opening there for Malloy/Keith to debut next season at 3B. Can either handle it defensively, or looking at career/age, can Malloy be tried there enough before Keith is ready for a promotion? The OF could have 4 LHBs out there. Torkelson & Baez return as RHBs. 2B (again, just looking at incumbents) are LHB heavy in McKinstry/Maton. I think Short has earned a return as a RHB IF bench guy. Catcher looks like a RHB, although with day/night games and workloads and such, creating a platoon there is something of a fool's errand anyway. A RHB at 3B isn't going to crater the lineup. And given Malloy's OBP not necessarily being dependent upon AVG, if he can maintain reasonable offense in Toledo, I could see a window of him at 3B in Detroit. DUring that same window, the LHBs in the OF (Carpenter, Baddoo, MeadowsP) get time to be sorted. In particular, I wouldn't think Baddoo is etched in stone going forward. He might be the guy on the hot seat if Keith hits & fields well in Toledo and Malloy hits in Detroit. A pretty good amount of if there, but I don't think its too far fetched. And none of this takes into consideration any moves that get made this upcoming offseason. So who knows for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, casimir said: So there's an opening there for Malloy/Keith to debut next season at 3B. I could easily have missed it but I don't think Malloy has played an inning at 3b in 3 wks. Have to think that ship has sailed. Edited July 1, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 No matter how much he rakes at Toledo, don't be surprised in Keith is held down until he can maintain rookie eligibility. Unless the Tigers somehow find themselves in contention before then, that is. Reminder, he will need to be under 45 days of active (i.e. non-IL) service time and under 130 at-bats at season's end to be eligible for prospect lists and thus be able to net the Tigers a draft pick if he gets any award voting early on in his career. We are talking late August at the earliest. Patience... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Edman85 said: No matter how much he rakes at Toledo, don't be surprised in Keith is held down until he can maintain rookie eligibility. Unless the Tigers somehow find themselves in contention before then, that is. Reminder, he will need to be under 45 days of active (i.e. non-IL) service time and under 130 at-bats at season's end to be eligible for prospect lists and thus be able to net the Tigers a draft pick if he gets any award voting early on in his career. We are talking late August at the earliest. Patience... yeah - and he has to crash a little bit at some point soon, what he is doing isn't sustainable at any level. Just as soon that happen and he plays through it at Toledo. He should have that experience once before he reaches the majors. Torkelson probably suffered for lack of it. Edited July 1, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Keith's HR last night was estimated at 473 feet...that 60 power rating on MLB.com may need to come up a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtrain72 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 If Keith were brought up to the Tigers today, he would hit better than Harvy the rest of the season, change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: OTOH, if he's going to be an OF, then less need to extend any apprenticeship in the minors if the bat is ready. OTOH... When Miggy retires after the season... A beautiful opening at DH blossoms wildly, allowing Hinch to put Malloy or Carpenter at DH, or in LF, or on the bench as a pinch-hitter, as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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