Tiger Cubs (notes on the minors)

[gehringer_2]

I'll put this here because Turner used to be a Tiger cub...

Henning tracked down Jacob Turner to write a story about his 'recovery' from his baseball career, which has gone fine for him and if you are interested the story is here. But what I though was interesting wasn't the focus of the story. It was how Turner found and lost his fastball without ever knowing how or why. Turner had been a low 90s guy in high school and then his junior year he suddenly had 98. That got everyone excited, including the Tigers, who drafted him. But then the 98 just disappeared and pretty much never came back, even under the coaching of the 4 different teams he played for (I'd note he wasn't impressed with the state of pitching management at any of his career stops. Apparently the Tigers weren't the only team that didn't even have video of their pitchers).

So you wonder (as it appears Jacob does a little even now), if he played today would all the biomechanics analysis and tech available today gotten that FB fastball back and turned a marginal career into the one closer to the one that was projected for him when he was drafted?

I suppose the other possibility with a <20 yr old that it was just bad luck on the genes. That a player might be blessed/cursed with a body that reaches a point in physical development where muscle tone, bone geometry and ligature elasticity just happen to combine to create arm with the right balance of speed, strength and whip to produce that 98 but then all those growth process push right past that sweet spot in less favorable directions and a year or two later it's a different enough body that 98 is no longer in there.

[chasfh]

I gotta wonder what “tweaks” the Tigers coaches of 2009 made to Turner’s delivery.

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I gotta wonder what “tweaks” the Tigers coaches of 2009 made to Turner’s delivery.

And what they knew when they dealt him to the Marlins?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

And what they knew when they dealt him to the Marlins?

The Marlins were the third part of the Tigers-Pirates-Marlins-Expos quadrangle that keep passing players, coaches, and front office personnel among themselves.

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I gotta wonder what “tweaks” the Tigers coaches of 2009 made to Turner’s delivery.

Turner pretty much said that no-one on any of this teams worked with him on mechanics. His hindsight might be colored at this point, but certainly none of the teams he played for impressed him enough to him to bother noting that they were ever helpful.

[Toddwert]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Turner pretty much said that no-one on any of this teams worked with him on mechanics. His hindsight might be colored at this point, but certainly none of the teams he played for impressed him enough to him to bother noting that they were ever helpful.

from what the Tigers Minor League report guys heard that until recently minor league players were pretty much on their when it comes to development or making chnages ... its a wonder anyone made it out of the Tigers system

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Turner pretty much said that no-one on any of this teams worked with him on mechanics. His hindsight might be colored at this point, but certainly none of the teams he played for impressed him enough to him to bother noting that they were ever helpful.

I find it a little hard to believe that Tiger coaches didn't tell an 18-year-old kid coming into their camp to change this and change that, but hey, maybe they didn't care enough to. What seems unlikely to me is that they saw him throw and said, you're perfect, kid, don't change a thing.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I find it a little hard to believe that Tiger coaches didn't tell an 18-year-old kid coming into their camp to change this and change that, but hey, maybe they didn't care enough to. What seems unlikely to me is that they saw him throw and said, you're perfect, kid, don't change a thing.

True enough, all we have is what he is saying now, how ever colored by time that has become. I just think it's interesting that he doesn't remember his coaching from any team as having been good. A lot of players will have at least one coach that leaves a positive impression.

[1776]

12 hours ago, chasfh said:

I gotta wonder what “tweaks” the Tigers coaches of 2009 made to Turner’s delivery.

His pitching coaches told him, “It’s an egg. Hold it like it’s an egg.”

Apparently he didn’t grasp the concept.

Edited February 23, 2024 by 1776

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

 

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

Interesting that Dickerson played with Clark and McGonigal on team USA so they probably had plenty of film and reports on him 

[LongLiveMaroth]

Pipelines Top 30 List out today

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/tigers/

[mtutiger]

Sawyer Gipson Long at #11.... Al's last two deadline deals may have been his best after all lol

[Edman85]

15 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Sawyer Gipson Long at #11.... Al's last two deadline deals may have been his best after all lol

Two of his last three...

Kris Anglin is out of baseball after being acquired for Grossman.

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Sawyer Gipson Long at #11.... Al's last two deadline deals may have been his best after all lol

Good thing Al is gone or else Long would be out of baseball or buried in high A lol

[mtutiger]

26 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Two of his last three...

Kris Anglin is out of baseball after being acquired for Grossman.

Good point lol...

[RatkoVarda]

23 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

Pipelines Top 30 List out today

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/tigers/

Santana and Pacheco are not looking good

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

Santana and Pacheco are not looking good

Baseball is hard 

[casimir]

Are Keith and Jung too similar enough in defensive weaknesses that its going to be tough to carry both at some combination of 2B/3B?  I get their calling cards are their bats, but the gloves are part of the equation, too.

Maybe I'm wrong, but with what I've read and heard, it sounds like both are 3B.  Keith gets 2B this season as a way to promote his bat to Detroit, and not force his arm across the diamond at 3B for the immediate future, but it will be strong enough to handle it longer term.

[RatkoVarda]

Jung just won a minor league gold glove award at 2b, but people tell me that's meaningless

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Jung just won a minor league gold glove award at 2b, but people tell me that's meaningless

"That’s if he sticks at second base. Jung was a surprise Rawlings Minor League Gold Glove winner given his pre-Draft reputation, but he impressed Tigers officials and Minor League managers with his ability to handle what’s hit to him with his good hands. However, his lack of range limits his defensive ceiling up the middle, and his trial at third coincided with Colt Keith getting looks at the keystone. Jung’s offensive ability is too good to ignore, and should he keep hitting the right benchmarks, he'll remain valuable in the lineup regardless of his defensive spot."

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/tigers/jace-jung-690291

[RatkoVarda]

like I said, people keep telling me its meaningless

[casimir]

3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

like I said, people keep telling me its meaningless

It’s probably a little more validated than Rafael Palmiero’s gold glove award.  But do we know how the defensive awards are handled for the minor leagues?

[LongLiveMaroth]

https://www.mlb.com/news/tigers-spring-breakout-roster-2024?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

[Tenacious D]