Random NFL comments/thoughts

[buddha]

17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Speaking of black coaches not getting a fair shake, Hue Jackson still kept his job after going 1-31.

 

how many years did marvin lewis lose playoff games in cincinnati?  

pete carroll was 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8 with the pats and got fired.  it happens, the nfl is a cut throat business.

otoh, there ARE currently a lack of  black head coaches in the nfl.  why?  i dont know.  there have been plenty in the past and there are plenty of candidates in the pipeline.  i think the nfl has done some things to help that process along, including offering incentives to teams to develop black coaches through draft pick awards and requiring teams to interview black head coaches.  that's a positive for the nfl.

[Stanley70]

The fact that Flores includes a bunch of issues that having nothing to do with racism detracts from his point. He comes across as a disgruntled employee who is doing this more to make the Dolphins look bad than to prove his point.

[Motown Bombers]

14 minutes ago, buddha said:

how many years did marvin lewis lose playoff games in cincinnati?  

pete carroll was 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8 with the pats and got fired.  it happens, the nfl is a cut throat business.

otoh, there ARE currently a lack of  black head coaches in the nfl.  why?  i dont know.  there have been plenty in the past and there are plenty of candidates in the pipeline.  i think the nfl has done some things to help that process along, including offering incentives to teams to develop black coaches through draft pick awards and requiring teams to interview black head coaches.  that's a positive for the nfl.

Jim Harbaugh was fired after one 8-8 season after making three straight NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl. Doug Pederson won a Super Bowl and made the playoffs twice afterwards and got fired 3 years removed from the Super Bowl and has not gotten a job. On the other hand, Josh McDaniels came to Denver and drove out his young QB and star WR and crashed and burned. He was given another opportunity and reneged on the Colts and was still given yet another opportunity. I have no idea what there is to like about that guy. 

[sagnam]

Good for Flores for taking a stand for what’s right, regardless of the cost.  That takes courage.  He could continue with the farce and maybe be one of the few minority head coaches while ignoring the struggles of the others less fortunate than him, but instead he used his platform to try to make it better for others.

[sagnam]

Representative wants hearing on system racism in NFL

Report: Unnamed witness heard Stephen Ross offer Brian Flores $100,000 per loss

[sagnam]

Jerry Jones on Brian Flores’ lawsuit: We can be better

[MichiganCardinal]

Another team, another seemingly under-qualified white guy.

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Another team, another seemingly under-qualified white guy.

who should they hire?

[MichiganCardinal]

Just now, buddha said:

who should they hire?

I don’t know. It could ultimately be a great hire.

At some point though you do have to wonder if Flores has a point. Guys like Eric Bienemy, Raheem Morris, and Jim Caldwell seem to get their interviews every year and hear nothing. Guy like Kevin O’Connell comes along and gets a gig before the average fan even knows his name.

 

[Motown Bombers]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

who should they hire?

Marvin Lewis. 

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I don’t know. It could ultimately be a great hire.

At some point though you do have to wonder if Flores has a point. Guys like Eric Bienemy, Raheem Morris, and Jim Caldwell seem to get their interviews every year and hear nothing. Guy like Kevin O’Connell comes along and gets a gig before the average fan even knows his name.

 

Jim Caldwell has gotten two jobs. How many white coaches get three shots in the NFL? Usually to get a third shot you should have a Super Bowl ring. Speaking of which, there doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz around Doug Pederson. 

[Motown Bombers]

Minnesota's black GM didn't hire a black coach. 

[Motown Bombers]

It appears that Flores also mentioned the Lions. Apparently any team who ever fired a black coach is a racist organization. Doesn't matter that two of the last three GMs of the Lions have been black (three of the last four if you include Sheldon White). The Lions also hired two black coordinators, black assistant coach, black assistant GM, but none of that matters. 

[MichiganCardinal]

18 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Jim Caldwell has gotten two jobs. How many white coaches get three shots in the NFL? Usually to get a third shot you should have a Super Bowl ring. Speaking of which, there doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz around Doug Pederson. 

After posting, I thought about posting an edit based on Caldwell's prior jobs.

I don't know all of the answers. Maybe every candidate selected this cycle has been the best guy for the job, and they all just happen to be white. The problem in the NFL is definitely larger than the 32 people selected for HC jobs. From the outside looking in though, I do see a lot of white coaches despite a very diverse player pool. 

[buddha]

27 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I don’t know. It could ultimately be a great hire.

At some point though you do have to wonder if Flores has a point. Guys like Eric Bienemy, Raheem Morris, and Jim Caldwell seem to get their interviews every year and hear nothing. Guy like Kevin O’Connell comes along and gets a gig before the average fan even knows his name.

 

morris was a failure as a head coach already.  caldwell has failed twice.  bienemy had so much legal trouble in colorado he was banned by the city of boulder.  duis, assaukts on women, you name it.  dude has a long past to get by, which is why he probably hasnt been hired yet.

[buddha]

caldwell is also in his 60s.

[Motown Bombers]

Caldwell is 67. Does a team with a young QB such as Jacksonville or Chicago see him as a long term option? Do the Saints who are staring down a lengthy rebuild see him as someone who can see through that rebuild? You aren't going to sign him to a 6 year deal like the Lions did with Campbell. 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

morris was a failure as a head coach already.  caldwell has failed twice.  bienemy had so much legal trouble in colorado he was banned by the city of boulder.  duis, assaukts on women, you name it.  dude has a long past to get by, which is why he probably hasnt been hired yet.

Imagine if a white coach got hired with that rap sheet. 

[buddha]

aaron glenn will be a head coach soon.  duce staley is heading that way too.

[gehringer_2]

9 hours ago, buddha said:

otoh, there ARE currently a lack of  black head coaches in the nfl.  why?  i dont know. 

Guys on the ticket today pinned it down to the fact that in the current NFL the route to HC is through OC and all the top teams seem to have white OC's. They went through a list that I think was the playoff teams but I don't know any of the names well enough to have judged what they were saying. Of course that may be a reason - but even if true it only removes the question one level.

[Motown Bombers]

10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Guys on the ticket today pinned it down to the fact that in the current NFL the route to HC is through OC and all the top teams seem to have white OC's. They went through a list that I think was the playoff teams but I don't know any of the names well enough to have judged what they were saying. Of course that may be a reason - but even if true it only removes the question one level.

My theory has to do with the fact that the league is 70% black. Take someone like Sean McVay. He was a player in college but had no future in the NFL. He immediately went into coaching after graduation and worked his way into an offensive coordinator position before becoming a head coach. I'm willing to bet a good majority of coordinators never played in the NFL or played very sparingly like Jason Garrett who was just a backup and probably groomed to be a future coach. 

[Jason_R]

I once interviewed for a job where I later learned the interviewer had no intention of hiring me. He only included me because he needed to satisfy the person who recommended me.   

I interviewed for another job where I had the best credentials and experience but lost to someone because of what college they went to. 

I once got fired from a job after a new CEO came in. Two years later that CEO was gone. Ten years later and they haven’t grown a bit, though we were doing quite well when I was there.  

Maybe if I was (fill in the blank) I might assume people were out to get (fill in the blanks).

[Motor City Sonics]

NFL owners are like Randolph and Mortimer Duke.  

[RedRamage]

13 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

My theory has to do with the fact that the league is 70% black. Take someone like Sean McVay. He was a player in college but had no future in the NFL. He immediately went into coaching after graduation and worked his way into an offensive coordinator position before becoming a head coach. I'm willing to bet a good majority of coordinators never played in the NFL or played very sparingly like Jason Garrett who was just a backup and probably groomed to be a future coach. 

I not sure I 100% agree with this.  I think you're saying that because black college players are more likely to become players in the NFL that white college players have to look at other options, which includes coaches, and therefore are more likely to end up coaches.

While I see some logic in that thinking the assumption is that aren't more black players in college as well.  What I mean is if, to make the math easy, we say there are 500 black college players and 400 white college players and 100 "other" players... Black do better over all, so we'll say 20% of black players make it to the pros.  White players don't do as well, so we'll say only 10% of them make it to the pros.

That means 360 white players aren't NFL bound and may choose to go into coaching.  But that also means that 400 black players are also not NFL bound and may go into coaching, so (obviously depending on where the actual numbers end up) there still might be more blacks who played in college but didn't make the pros than there are whites.

All this said I DO think that it's wrong to point to the 70% of black players and say the pool of potential coaches is therefore 70% black because it assumes that all players equally want to be coaches and would make good coaches and that ONLY former players are NFL coaches.

[Motor City Sonics]

5 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I not sure I 100% agree with this.  I think you're saying that because black college players are more likely to become players in the NFL that white college players have to look at other options, which includes coaches, and therefore are more likely to end up coaches.

While I see some logic in that thinking the assumption is that aren't more black players in college as well.  What I mean is if, to make the math easy, we say there are 500 black college players and 400 white college players and 100 "other" players... Black do better over all, so we'll say 20% of black players make it to the pros.  White players don't do as well, so we'll say only 10% of them make it to the pros.

That means 360 white players aren't NFL bound and may choose to go into coaching.  But that also means that 400 black players are also not NFL bound and may go into coaching, so (obviously depending on where the actual numbers end up) there still might be more blacks who played in college but didn't make the pros than there are whites.

All this said I DO think that it's wrong to point to the 70% of black players and say the pool of potential coaches is therefore 70% black because it assumes that all players equally want to be coaches and would make good coaches and that ONLY former players are NFL coaches.

But then you get an example of Adam Gace or even Josh McDaniels, who were total disasters the first time, but get a second shot before a lot of Black candidates get their first.    McDaniels isn't as bad because he's had a decade to think about what he did wrong, but Adam Gace got a gig right away after getting canned in Miami.     Plus, a guy like Steve Wilks gets 1 year, the first of a rebuild with a Mike Glenon and Josh Rosen at QB, while he's replaced by Kliff Kingsbury, who was 35-40 in college and had his teams collapse in the 2nd half, just like he does now.   Kliff Kingsbury seems, at best, a coordinator or even a QB coach.      What, does Eric Bieniemy go into interviews and burp and fart or check texts during the interview?  I don't know.  Where is the disconnect here?     I don't think there is a effort to hold anyone back, not an overt one, anyway, but it's just very noticible.