Random NFL comments/thoughts

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, RedRamage said:

But the official time keeper isn't on the field, at least I don't think so. Again, this is all a pretty meaningless debate because we don't have all the information. I guess my long winded post above is essentially saying that I think they built in the subjectivity for the PLAY clock understanding that officials can't be looking at the PLAY clock and the play at the same time, but never retroactively added the subjectivity to the GAME clock.

So:
Technically there is no subjectivity in the GAME clock. When it hits zero the period is done.

In practice, though, there is subjectivity in the GAME clock because, just like the play clock, the officials can't be looking at that and the play at the same time. If the official doesn't blow the whistle before the play is snapped, then the period isn't done. (Remember of course that the play just needs to START before 0:00, it could theoretically go on for many seconds later. So the ref can't just blow the whistle when s/he see 0:00 because the play might be in progress.)

With the advances we've had since the 1960's, there should be rule changes allowing reviews for officials mistakes. Time is NOT a matter of opinion...lol. Play clock or game clock should both be enforced correctly. It was the entire reason for reviews, to get the calls right. I really can't believe this hasn't been brought up to the rules committee.

[KnoxP]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

and I go back to my original point - I don't see that you can argue it's necessarily favorable to either O or D if the period whistle is late. Why wouldn't the offensive lineman be as likely to let down in anticipation of no play as the D men? You either stay ready to play or you don't. That kind of lapse can happen to any player on either side of the ball. Maybe it happened to the Lions, maybe the execution was good enough the Lions would have given it up on that play if the play had been run 2 minutes earlier in the qtr. The Lions could have as easily given up the yards on the 1st play of the next qtr. I think there is a little bit of fan paranoia that anything that happens out of order has to have been detrimental to my team.

Agreed! Players got to be ready and ON. Only thing that changes that is the whistle.

[MichiganCardinal]

6 hours ago, KnoxP said:

Technically...that appears to be the case, given the 'expert' opinion heard about it. There must be a responsible ref to do this, and my guess it is NOT the play clock guy, seeing as how many plays can get off in hurry-up mode. 

In practice...ref's got to be 100% committed to making the call-no hesitation. For both game and play clock. "Subjectivity" has no place in either case. See the clock expired, quick look, no snap WHISTLE and FLAG.  Sure there will be close calls and griping.  Removing any delay worst case is snap and whistle occur at same time and if that's true it's late.

In both this GB game and the Balt/Justin Tucker 66y doink game the ref must have been anticipating the snap will occur before the clock expires and when he realizes it has not, that moment of hesitation causes late snaps and no flags. Unless, as many suggest, the refs are attempting to rig a Det. loss.  As convenient as that reasoning is, I don't quite buy it.

Subjectivity gets us Jawann Taylor lining up in the backfield and moving early. 🤬

Per Michigan High School seven-official mechanics (I don't know NFL but I believe it is the same despite them having eight officials), the Back Judge (center of field deep defensive backfield) is responsible for the play clock, while the Side Judge (first half visiting side of field deep defensive backfield) is responsible for the game clock.

Philosophically, there is a difference. The play clock is given that extra 'beat', the game clock is not. Practically, as has been mentioned, you can't be looking at the ball and the clock at the same time. Depending on the location of the clock though, you should be able to see the clock hit zero and have the offensive players in your periphery. If there hasn't been mass movement in the periphery when you see 0:00, I would think that's probably enough to shut it down.

I also feel like this is reviewable. Haven't we seen 4th quarter plays where the team is rushing to spike the ball and it's super close as to whether one second should be left, and that gets reviewed? Maybe I'm imagining it. I don't know why the 4th quarter should be different than the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd though in this regard. Unless they would claim the difference is that one is "whether the incomplete pass was completed with one second on the clock" and the other is "whether there was no time on the clock", though the latter is certainly easier to adjudge.

[Sports_Freak]

47 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Per Michigan High School seven-official mechanics (I don't know NFL but I believe it is the same despite them having eight officials), the Back Judge (center of field deep defensive backfield) is responsible for the play clock, while the Side Judge (first half visiting side of field deep defensive backfield) is responsible for the game clock.

Philosophically, there is a difference. The play clock is given that extra 'beat', the game clock is not. Practically, as has been mentioned, you can't be looking at the ball and the clock at the same time. Depending on the location of the clock though, you should be able to see the clock hit zero and have the offensive players in your periphery. If there hasn't been mass movement in the periphery when you see 0:00, I would think that's probably enough to shut it down.

I also feel like this is reviewable. Haven't we seen 4th quarter plays where the team is rushing to spike the ball and it's super close as to whether one second should be left, and that gets reviewed? Maybe I'm imagining it. I don't know why the 4th quarter should be different than the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd though in this regard. Unless they would claim the difference is that one is "whether the incomplete pass was completed with one second on the clock" and the other is "whether there was no time on the clock", though the latter is certainly easier to adjudge.

The NFL has enough officials to have some sort of signal sent to the on-field referees to shut a play down. I've seen countless reviews in NBA games on whether a shot got off in time. The NFL should never ignore an obvious penalty.

[holygoat]

It's literally the easiest thing to review. I mean, there is no other currently reviewable occurrence where a review would yield a higher likelihood of getting a call correct.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

17 minutes ago, holygoat said:

It's literally the easiest thing to review. I mean, there is no other currently reviewable occurrence where a review would yield a higher likelihood of getting a call correct.

Like everything, it will be reviewable after if effects the Lions.

[MichiganCardinal]

[Tigeraholic1]

Amazon lucked out this week. Baseball swept wild card and there is literally no other sporting events on tonight. You gotta watch this hot garbage to get your sports fix.

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, holygoat said:

It's literally the easiest thing to review. I mean, there is no other currently reviewable occurrence where a review would yield a higher likelihood of getting a call correct.

Isn't that the whole argument for reviews? To get the call right? In that video I posted, it showed that the play before the Tucker long FG that cost us the game, Baltimore took almost a full 2 seconds on the play before. Change the calls to make the play clock reviewable.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Isn't that the whole argument for reviews? To get the call right? In that video I posted, it showed that the play before the Tucker long FG that cost us the game, Baltimore took almost a full 2 seconds on the play before. Change the calls to make the play clock reviewable.

One of the issues I think with reviewing these is that if the clock is in frame.  This is probably less of an issue with the play clock vs. the game clock. But what's shown on TV is not official so they can't go by that. Generally it's going to be very close if not exact, but if we're trying to get the call right on a split second decision you can't rely on a unofficial clock that might be off by a split second or more. I suspect that's why these plays aren't reviewable.

[CMRivdogs]

It’s 2023 why aren’t these timers tied into a buzzer, or even a signal to the appropriate on field officials? It seem like a simple fix.

[buddha]

3 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Amazon lucked out this week. Baseball swept wild card and there is literally no other sporting events on tonight. You gotta watch this hot garbage to get your sports fix.

its the nfl.  people will watch regardless.

especially over baseball.

[Motor City Sonics]

**** Butkus has died. 

[Motor City Sonics]

So  his first name gets "starred" out, even though it's just a first name? 

 

End censorship now !

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

**** Butkus has died. 

if the bears win tonight it will insufferable here tomorrow.

[buddha]

unpopular opinion:

joe schmidt had a better career than d*ck butkus.

[RandyMarsh]

I know Buddha isn't going to like this but I think I'm actually rooting for the Bears tonight, I just prefer they win some games so they don't end up getting the number 1 pick again and God forbid the top 2 picks. Plus even though I don't expect the Lions to be competing with a team like the Commanders for the 6th or 7h seed you never know what may happen so the loss may come in handy if for some reason something crazy happens within the division. 

[RandyMarsh]

In regards to Butkus, I was too young to follow him as a player so my first real introduction to him was on the Saturday Morning Teen Show in the 90s called "Hang Time" where he played a High School Basketball Coach. 

[Motor City Sonics]

18 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

In regards to Butkus, I was too young to follow him as a player so my first real introduction to him was on the Saturday Morning Teen Show in the 90s called "Hang Time" where he played a High School Basketball Coach. 

It was lots of NFL Films productions for me...........I hear the song "Autumn Thunder" in my head right now. 

[holygoat]

2 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

It’s 2023 why aren’t these timers tied into a buzzer, or even a signal to the appropriate on field officials? It seem like a simple fix.

It's 2023 and the NFL prints almost as much money as the Fed, so there's no technological issue they can't overcome to make this possible.

[Dan Gilmore]

I-L-L, I-N-I!

Edited October 5, 2023 by Dan Gilmore

[number20]

32 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know Buddha isn't going to like this but I think I'm actually rooting for the Bears tonight, I just prefer they win some games so they don't end up getting the number 1 pick again and God forbid the top 2 picks. Plus even though I don't expect the Lions to be competing with a team like the Commanders for the 6th or 7h seed you never know what may happen so the loss may come in handy if for some reason something crazy happens within the division. 

Yes. We want the Bears to win tonight

[CMRivdogs]

Washington's defense has been questionable, especially early in the game. 
 

I haven't been impressed with Howell either.

[Motor City Sonics]

15 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Washington's defense has been questionable, especially early in the game. 
 

I haven't been impressed with Howell either.

Give the Bears time.  They haven't figured out how to lose this one yet. 

 

Their coach  is lucky he wasn't fired after the Denver game.  

[number20]

Looking good Justin Fields. That's right Chicago - keep believing in this guy. Retain him for next year, do NOT draft a QB. Win some games, fall in the draft