RandyMarsh Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 47 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: No doubt Hall of Famer: Matthew Stafford: Not sure who the other guy is but unlike the MLB HOF which is extremely stat based when it comes to football perception and winning(especially for a qb) are things that I think voters pay more attention to than raw numbers. If a guy was never perceived to be elite I just don't think they are going to vote for him for the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Yeah... I'm pretty certain it would be very easy to see that the stats of a QB once considered the Greatest of ALL-TIME would look very, very pedestrian today... Johnny Unitas's career: 54.6% completion, 40K yards, 290 TD's and 253 INT's... There were... other factors considered in his HOF greatness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 All these stats are nice and all, but I think everyone is neglecting the seldom known fact that Matthew Stafford went to high school with Clayton Kershaw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Hongbit said: Kurt Warner was a system QB Kurt Warner got the Cardinals to the Super Bowl. The Cardinals were the same as the Lions for 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said: Not sure who the other guy is but unlike the MLB HOF which is extremely stat based when it comes to football perception and winning(especially for a qb) are things that I think voters pay more attention to than raw numbers. If a guy was never perceived to be elite I just don't think they are going to vote for him for the Hall. It’s John Elway. Who played in a different era and is a no doubt hall of fame QB. Stafford is not. But if he hits 60k, that puts him in the conversation with his contemporaries who put up big numbers in the golden age of QBs. At this point, though, it seems as likely that he will never play another down than that he will hit 60k passing yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jason_R said: It’s John Elway. Who played in a different era and is a no doubt hall of fame QB. Stafford is not. But if he hits 60k, that puts him in the conversation with his contemporaries who put up big numbers in the golden age of QBs. At this point, though, it seems as likely that he will never play another down than that he will hit 60k passing yards. No doubt comparing counting stats between eras is a dubious exercise. Elway was a unicorn in terms of his arm talent compared to his comtemporaries. He was to other throwers then what Justin Fields is to other running QBs right now. That separation from the pack on the skill that matters sure didn't hurt his cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 It's especially hard to compare passing stats since the rules and game itself have evolved to benefit the offense and especially QBs and WRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Right... And what that does to Stafford is... Just makes him "another guy" in terms of stats because in this generation of QB's there's a shitload of QB's with similar stats. And therefore... ignore the stats, it has to be "other things" that will make someone want to vote a guy into the HOF. Will Rodgers get in? He won only one Super Bowl. But... the perception of him versus Stafford is that Rodgers constantly drove his team to victory and Stafford didn't. It doesn't even matter what the stats say. And therefore, similar QB's to Stafford might be Eli, Rivers & Ryan, not Peyton, Brady & Rodgers. And Stafford, Eli Manning, Ryan & Rivers will have a hard time getting in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 20 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Right... And what that does to Stafford is... Just makes him "another guy" in terms of stats because in this generation of QB's there's a shitload of QB's with similar stats. And therefore... ignore the stats, it has to be "other things" that will make someone want to vote a guy into the HOF. Will Rodgers get in? He won only one Super Bowl. But... the perception of him versus Stafford is that Rodgers constantly drove his team to victory and Stafford didn't. It doesn't even matter what the stats say. And therefore, similar QB's to Stafford might be Eli, Rivers & Ryan, not Peyton, Brady & Rodgers. And Stafford, Eli Manning, Ryan & Rivers will have a hard time getting in. rodgers is a better qb than stafford and has had a much better career. its not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Enshrinement is all just good marketing for a museum about pro football. A fantastic way to sell tickets and keep things fresh year after year. And Kurt Warner was a system QB. The system was Satan’s and was sealed that day he sold his soul outside a grocery store in Cedar Falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 38 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Right... And what that does to Stafford is... Just makes him "another guy" in terms of stats because in this generation of QB's there's a shitload of QB's with similar stats. And therefore... ignore the stats, it has to be "other things" that will make someone want to vote a guy into the HOF. Will Rodgers get in? He won only one Super Bowl. But... the perception of him versus Stafford is that Rodgers constantly drove his team to victory and Stafford didn't. It doesn't even matter what the stats say. And therefore, similar QB's to Stafford might be Eli, Rivers & Ryan, not Peyton, Brady & Rodgers. And Stafford, Eli Manning, Ryan & Rivers will have a hard time getting in. Yes, and how has Matt Ryan, drafted one year earlier than Matt Stafford, ended up with 10k more passing yards to date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Yes, and how has Matt Ryan, drafted one year earlier than Matt Stafford, ended up with 10k more passing yards to date? Because Stafford basically missed his first two seasons in the NFL. Stafford was at least at one point the all time leader in yards per game. Matt Ryan has played over 40 more game than Stafford and averages fewer yards per game than Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: No doubt comparing counting stats between eras is a dubious exercise. Elway was a unicorn in terms of his arm talent compared to his comtemporaries. He was to other throwers then what Justin Fields is to other running QBs right now. That separation from the pack on the skill that matters sure didn't hurt his cause. The point is, Elway only once led the NFL in anything and that was passing yards. His MVP season of 1987 he didn't even finish in the top 10 of some categories. He's in because he played in 5 Super Bowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: Because Stafford basically missed his first two seasons in the NFL. Stafford was at least at one point the all time leader in yards per game. Matt Ryan has played over 40 more game than Stafford and averages fewer yards per game than Stafford. Yes, I remember, but this is one of those questions a hall of fame voter will have to address in considering the eight QBs of the early 2000s who will be under consideration as of 2024, which is when Eli can be considered. I don’t think Stafford will be in the conversation unless he hits 60k passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The point is, Elway only once led the NFL in anything and that was passing yards. His MVP season of 1987 he didn't even finish in the top 10 of some categories. He's in because he played in 5 Super Bowls. He also selected to 9 Pro Bowls and was All Pro 3 times and was viewed throughout his career as one of the best QBs in the league, you could argue whether he truly was or not but the fact is that was the perception and that's what matters when it comes to HOF voting. If Stafford had that same perception he would be a shoe in for sure but unfortunately for him he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Could also be the perception of what it means to lead the league in passing has changed. Back in the day if you threw a lot it meant you were losing a lot. The shift in the idea that throwing a lot could mean winning maybe started to change with Fouts and Air Coryell, which runs into Elway's years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 pro football references hall of fame monitor has an average hall of fame qb at a rating of 109. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm ryan is 104, just below the average. elway is 139. above marino but just below brees and montana. stafford is 70. that places him below most hall of fame qbs, but ahead of a few like len dawson and troy aikman. its also well below matt ryan and phillip rivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 its also higher than i thought stafford would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 (edited) I hope Dan Snyder is severely punished by the league and suspended until he’s able to sell the team for a multi-billion dollar personal profit. Edited December 8, 2022 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 4 hours ago, buddha said: rodgers is a better qb than stafford and has had a much better career. its not even close. Right... I know that... I was just attaching them, and might as well throw Joe Flacco in there as well because they each "won one Super Bowl". That's not enough is my point. And looking at the stats also isn't enough. Stafford has monster stats. That is no longer enough because a boatload of QB's have monster stats too, so... Flacco, Rivers, Stafford, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan... all big numbers, but don't think that's enough to get them in. Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton were the elite QB's and, yes, the starts show that they are superior... But where does that leave the above secondary guys. And here's a couple above the 5 guys above but... do they get into the HOF? A) Roethlisberger? B) Drew Brees Brees I think is a definite yes but Big Ben has better numbers than the listed 5 and he's a lot more uncertain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Right... I know that... I was just attaching them, and might as well throw Joe Flacco in there as well because they each "won one Super Bowl". That's not enough is my point. And looking at the stats also isn't enough. Stafford has monster stats. That is no longer enough because a boatload of QB's have monster stats too, so... Flacco, Rivers, Stafford, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan... all big numbers, but don't think that's enough to get them in. Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton were the elite QB's and, yes, the starts show that they are superior... But where does that leave the above secondary guys. And here's a couple above the 5 guys above but... do they get into the HOF? A) Roethlisberger? B) Drew Brees Brees I think is a definite yes but Big Ben has better numbers than the listed 5 and he's a lot more uncertain... rothlisberger and brees are locks for the hall of fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 5 hours ago, buddha said: roethlisberger and brees are locks for the hall of fame. You don't think Big Ben will have any issues getting in? Just wondering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Brees is a lock. Roethlisberger will be controversial. I’m not as sure. Jury is out on Stafford. Probably not if he retires this off-season. This isn’t the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 rothlisberger is a lock. multiple world champ qb on one of the most popular teams in the nfl. six time pro bowler and generally regarded as a top 5 qb for a good stretch of his career. and he was pretty good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.