RandyMarsh Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 I hear conflicting things about Murray. Some say that he has limited upside and doesn't translate well to today's NBA but then I watch some videos on youtube from people that have said things like "He is perfect for the modern NBA". I can't remember who made the comparison but somebody I read or follow said he is alot like Middleton, if he turns out to be him I wouldn't be upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 daniels is this year's pwill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 I think this is going to be a wild draft with more than a few surprise picks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 14 hours ago, Deleterious said: I like that he participated. I don't how anybody can make a judgement on these pro day workouts. Seems like they are all going to look great. I would put much more stock into measurables and game action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 13 hours ago, Deleterious said: What Vecenie says about Daniels (He has him 10th currently). His combine measurements. 6'7.5" in shoes. 8'9" standing reach. 6'10.5" wingspan. 195 pounds. His recruiting profile lists him at 6'4. Pretty impressive growth spurt. I'm intrigued because part of the reason I like Ivy is for his defensive profile. Sounds like you get something similar with Daniels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Deleterious said: I think this is going to be a wild draft with more than a few surprise picks. As long as it doesn't involve disappointing results for the Pistons, bring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Hart said: I don't how anybody can make a judgement on these pro day workouts. Seems like they are all going to look great. I would put much more stock into measurables and game action. This wasn't your typical pro day. This was the combine and he was going against other draft eligible players. I learned he isn't about pussy like the other top picks. He didn't work out in his hand picked gym against hand picked players doing have picked drills. That means something. As far as if you learn anything or not, you definitely do. Or else every team in the league wouldn't have multiple scouts at each one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 "If his shooting comes around, Daniels profiles as a terrific starting guard who could turn into one of the best role players in the NBA." You can say this about way too many prospects. Daniels is shooting 25% from three. If Killian could shoot the three he'd be a great role player as well. Or Hami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Betrayer said: "If his shooting comes around, Daniels profiles as a terrific starting guard who could turn into one of the best role players in the NBA." You can say this about way too many prospects. Daniels is shooting 25% from three. If Killian could shoot the three he'd be a great role player as well. Or Hami. LOL, Well, duh! "This could be a great player, he just has to start doing the things great players do!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Betrayer said: "If his shooting comes around, Daniels profiles as a terrific starting guard who could turn into one of the best role players in the NBA." You can say this about way too many prospects. Daniels is shooting 25% from three. If Killian could shoot the three he'd be a great role player as well. Or Hami. Unfortunately both of those guys need a lot more than shooting to be even average players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 Probably not the thread for a Killian discussion, but a Killian that shoots 40% on catch-and-shoot threes combined with his ability to be a secondary playmaker and his elite defensive potential would be a really nice role player next to Cade. A better shooting version of Marcus Smart. A Hami that could shoot 40% threes would be a nightmare on offense. You'd have to close out and he has the athleticism to just blow by anyone if they do that. Of course, it won't fix his off-ball defensive IQ, but I can live with that if you give me the rest of the package in addition to his disruptive on-ball defense. Point being, make a 25% three point shooter into a 40% three point shooter and all of a sudden almost anyone can become a legitimate role player. Kinda a silly argument for Daniels moving up so high in the draft. They said the same thing about Stanley Johnson. But maybe the Kings would buy it. Who knows what they'll do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) Killian is a road cone against any player with average speed. If his defense was half as good as Pistons fans think, he would start. After the trade, in 20 games, Hami shot 39% from three. He averaged a whole 11 ppg. The same 11 ppg he averaged this year on the same minutes where he shot 24% from three. Sometimes a turd is just a turd. Edited May 22, 2022 by Deleterious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 Having watched all the games, I'm not sure I agree with all that, but if that's your verdict then it sounds like you've described Dyson Daniels as well. Not sure anyone wants a turd with a top 10 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 On 5/21/2022 at 1:05 PM, Longgone said: I don't think so, they are saying Ivey and Sharpe have higher ceilings, and the Pistons should take the highest ceiling player, granting that Murray has the higher floor. Yeah they went 10 steps beyond that. Murray does have a ceiling, and sometimes when you swing and miss you miss. The post completely ignores those points. And missing on a swing and miss does nothing to keep cade in five years it leaves you in the same spot. It's wrong to just ignore all that when you wrote 300 words trying to explain why sharpe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, KL2 said: Yeah they went 10 steps beyond that. Murray does have a ceiling, and sometimes when you swing and miss you miss. The post completely ignores those points. And missing on a swing and miss does nothing to keep cade in five years it leaves you in the same spot. It's wrong to just ignore all that when you wrote 300 words trying to explain why sharpe. Actually, Longgone accurately described exactly what I was saying. And I wasn't explaining "why Sharpe". It was why you don't take a safe, low ceiling pick in what could be the last year you get a high lottery pick. Picks like that get you Kennard instead of Mitchell. It was also why you don't take another low level athlete when you have a team full of them. It's not about Sharpe in particular, in fact most people on here know that I prefer Ivey, it was why you take players like Ivey, Sharpe, or Mathurin over Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 Come on Kings! Take Ivey so we cant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 Obviously I like that Murray shot 39% from three. But even more impressive is his three point shooting against Big Ten teams. He shot 45% (50-110) against B10 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 32 minutes ago, Deleterious said: Obviously I like that Murray shot 39% from three. But even more impressive is his three point shooting against Big Ten teams. He shot 45% (50-110) against B10 teams. Do you think he is a guy that can play in the modern NBA? I have no problem if he doesn't have superstar tendencies, if he can just be a plus player that can stay on the court in the playoffs(assuming we ever make it there) then I'd be fine taking him. I still prefer Mathurin though cause to my amateur scouting he seems to offer the best combination of fit, upside and floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Good watch. Covers strengths and weaknesses on both sides of the ball, on ball, off ball, etc. There's zero chance I'd pass on Ivey is he's there at 5. Highest ceiling in the lottery (Sharpe is just guesswork right now). Give me that speed, athleticism, on ball defense, decent/improving three ball (36%), work ethic, and 99th percentile in player gravity please. We can work on the rest. I see him and Cade and as Tatum/Brown type of pairing. Ice and fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 46 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Do you think he is a guy that can play in the modern NBA? I have no problem if he doesn't have superstar tendencies, if he can just be a plus player that can stay on the court in the playoffs(assuming we ever make it there) then I'd be fine taking him. I still prefer Mathurin though cause to my amateur scouting he seems to offer the best combination of fit, upside and floor. He isn't Mobley on defense, but he isn't Kevin Love either. He will be able to stay on the court. On offense he is everything you want. Can face up against bigger players and take them off the bounce. Defend him with a smaller player and he can back them down. But the PnR is where him and Cade would be deadly. He is a lob threat with great hands. But he posses something a lot of bigs don't, the ability to shoot the three. So he sets a screen and can roll to the rim or pop to the three point line. With Cade's passing ability this combo would be really good especially when you need a bucket. Don't forget the last time Detroit swung for the fences (Killian) and passed on the old guy (Haliburton). Hali averaged 15 ppg and 8 apg this year and shot 41% from three on 5 attempts per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 6 hours ago, Deleterious said: Come on Kings! Take Ivey so we cant. So how do we get two of those players...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 You probably can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: So how do we get two of those players...? Find a way to prey on Portland's desperation and get that #7 to keep Dame happy. Going to take a bit more than Grant though. How much depends upon how much they want to keep Dame happy versus keeping the #7 in a weak draft. Also depends on what other teams offer. Maybe taking on Bledsoe's contract and adding in a 2nd rounder does the trick. Maybe sending one of Olynyk, Hami, or Frank helps the cause as well. You never know what GMs are thinking, and we've all seen interesting deals go down. Even with the pick in hand, in order to get 2 of those guys, Murray has to be the pick at #5 because the other three are guards so you probably don't want two of those. Then just grab the guard that's still available at 7 - Mathurin or Sharpe depending upon how much Indy wants to gamble on floor vs ceiling. Much as I like Ivey, I'd be elated to come out of the draft with Murray and one of Mathurin or Sharpe. It's the best of both worlds. Also saves us from extending Grant (huge win in my eyes) and probably keeps us out of the Ayton sign/trade for a max (even better). If we wind up getting Mathurin that might keep us away from Brunson as well (yay!), but if it's Sharpe they may want a vet like Brunson on the roster while Sharpe comes along for a couple years. Edited May 24, 2022 by Betrayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 were not trading grant for #7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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