Screwball Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Deleterious said: Yep. All cards have different fees. A single company will have different fees based on which card you have. Just a straight up CC will have a lower transaction fee than a rewards card. American Express has the highest fees. Visa, MC, and Discover all normally top out around 2.4% + 10 cents. American Express is something like 3.3% + 10 cents. Then each card has an assessment fee of .13-.15%. A lot of the fees are based on volume. Walmart is charged a much lower fee since they do billions in transactions a year compared to us that will only do a few million. And the more volume you do the more negotiating power you have on fees. Yeah, we could never go cash only. 80-85% of our sales are on credit/debit cards. Excellent - thank you. Makes sense on the volume thing, so I learned something new as well. 80-85% on cards. I would actually expect that to be higher. Which is why I think my buddy is nuts, but he's still open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Screwball said: Excellent - thank you. Makes sense on the volume thing, so I learned something new as well. 80-85% on cards. I would actually expect that to be higher. Which is why I think my buddy is nuts, but he's still open. Our customers are a bit older. 35+ 40+ types. I bet you are right on the under 35 crowd. Wouldn't shock me if their credit/debit card use is over 95%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Hey, be a good American and look the other way. Well, it really doesn't matter anyway - nothing changes. I remember back in 1980 working for a large crane manufacturer. We sold stuff to the military. I remember $11 o-rings that I could buy at the local hardware store (we did) for less than a dime. So it's been a scam for at least 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Deleterious said: Our customers are a bit older. 35+ 40+ types. I bet you are right on the under 35 crowd. Wouldn't shock me if their credit/debit card use is over 95%. That makes sense. Yea, the young people don't use cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I use Chase Freedom which has a standing 1% cash back deal, plus a special 5% cash back situation for certain categories on a rotating list that changes every quarter, e.g., groceries, gas, Amazon, etc. I built up six figures in spend over the past few years and used a good chunk of the reward dollars to pay for aftermarket speakers and installation for my new car, for which the automaker degraded the factory speakers to be worse than what I got in my 2013. The total cost had a comma in it, but since it all came out of rewards money, I look at the purchase as being free. I’ll miss the cash back program if Chase dumps it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 27 minutes ago, Deleterious said: No. That has nothing to do with this. Paying or not paying things off doesn't come into play here. When you use a CC at a business we are charged a fee to process it. I pass that fee onto you via higher prices. Rewards cards have the highest fees, so we set prices off of those. That means all of my items now cost more because of those rewards cards. You pay a higher fee to buy an item. I don't pocket the fee, it simply passes onto the CC company who is now the only winner in the deal. If the legislation passes and the retailer fee goes away, will you reduce your prices across the board by the 2% or 3% or 4% you’re currently paying for the fees on the card transactions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 A downside issue I see with this legislation though is that if it does 'open up competition' and you do get dozens of credit card companies out there, then that becomes a mess (read "cost") of a different kind for retailers and consumers to deal with. This could be one of those, "be careful what you wish for" kind of things. Credit payment clearance is really something that should be a natural monopoly - run by the Post Office or something. When you think about it, it's exactly the kind of utility service where a regulated public monopoly would work just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 42 minutes ago, Deleterious said: No. That has nothing to do with this. Paying or not paying things off doesn't come into play here. When you use a CC at a business we are charged a fee to process it. I pass that fee onto you via higher prices. Rewards cards have the highest fees, so we set prices off of those. That means all of my items now cost more because of those rewards cards. You pay a higher fee to buy an item. I don't pocket the fee, it simply passes onto the CC company who is now the only winner in the deal. Maybe, I just expect big corporations (whether it be the credit card company or Amazon) to find a way to screw me either way. Smaller companies are different. I am happy to get the rewards because if I don't, I suspect Amazon will find a way to to charge me more anyway. Maybe, I am just too cynical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, Deleterious said: Our customers are a bit older. 35+ 40+ types. I bet you are right on the under 35 crowd. Wouldn't shock me if their credit/debit card use is over 95%. I do almost everything on a credit card now. A lot of clerks now get visibly pissed off when I pay by cash now because they don't have enough bills, change in their machine. I just figured I was an old man who wasn't informed that cash is now frowned upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, chasfh said: If the legislation passes and the retailer fee goes away, will you reduce your prices across the board by the 2% or 3% or 4% you’re currently paying for the fees on the card transactions? That's the thing. I don't think the really big businesses will. The banks and big business will win. The rest of us will lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: I built up six figures in spend over the past few years and used a good chunk of the reward dollars to pay for aftermarket speakers and installation for my new car Looks good though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: If the legislation passes and the retailer fee goes away, will you reduce your prices across the board by the 2% or 3% or 4% you’re currently paying for the fees on the card transactions? This will not make fees go away, just lower them. Our pricing model includes CC fees in it. So yes, a lower fee for us is a lower price for our customer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: I do almost everything on a credit card now. A lot of clerks now get visibly pissed off when I pay by cash now because they don't have enough bills, change in their machine. I just figured I was an old man who wasn't informed that cash is now frowned upon. Interestingly, about an hour after I posted this, I went to my favorite local market to pick up some milk and eggs and they have a new cash only policy. They also have stopped selling lottery tickets (a great move as far as I am concerned!). I am not sure if that is related. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Looks good though My '98 booming with a trunk of funk ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Interestingly, about an hour after I posted this, I went to my favorite local market to pick up some milk and eggs and they have a new cash only policy. They also have stopped selling lottery tickets (a great move as far as I am concerned!). I am not sure if that is related. Did you ask them why? I'd be interested. The only businesses I know that take cash only are dispensaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Speaking of dispensaries; thank you Michigan. Giggle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, chasfh said: Did you ask them why? I'd be interested. The only businesses I know that take cash only are dispensaries. They had a sign at the register saying they would be able to lower prices if customers paid by cash and another sign saying cash onlyh The store has been in operation since I was a kid, although the ownership has changed a few times. I have seen some cash only stores in small town NH, not in Massachusetts before. Edited December 30, 2022 by Tiger337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Maybe, I just expect big corporations (whether it be the credit card company or Amazon) to find a way to screw me either way. Smaller companies are different. I am happy to get the rewards because if I don't, I suspect Amazon will find a way to to charge me more anyway. Maybe, I am just too cynical. At the end of they the people who win are the swine bankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 5 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Maybe, I just expect big corporations (whether it be the credit card company or Amazon) to find a way to screw me either way. Smaller companies are different. I am happy to get the rewards because if I don't, I suspect Amazon will find a way to to charge me more anyway. Maybe, I am just too cynical. Not at all. it's funny. I guess once you work for a corporation once, there shouldn't be any mystery. The only reason a business exists is to part you from your money while giving up as little in return as possible. That is the basic set up, no-one should ever be surprised by that. Your job as a consumer is to do everything you can to pit every business you can against each other so you can get as much for your money as you can. Seller/buyer. It's just your basic predator/prey relationship the species has been dealing with for 100000 yrs cast into constantly evolving settings. The only thing that surprises me is when people don't get it. My SO has this eternal optimism that some-one out there selling something really wants to give her something for free. I've tried to persuade her otherwise over the years, and she's been disappointed by enough sales come-ons at this point to know better herself --- makes no difference. Something in human nature I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 I'm definitely open to the notion Dtrain is presenting that the rewards are actually funded by "hidden" or unknown costs that I'm paying. But I've used rewards points to buy multiple > $2k musical instruments and I think it's rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 If they passed this law, could I expect prices at places to decrease to account for those hidden fees not being charged anymore? My gut tells me no.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 We regularly book hotel rooms based on points. I doubt if the rates would drop significantly in places like Cambridge, OH or Wixom, MI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, pfife said: If they passed this law, could I expect prices at places to decrease to account for those hidden fees not being charged anymore? My gut tells me no.... it's not even that the fees are hidden, it's never been a secret that the credit card co takes a cut of every purchase. The question is whether having more COs in the market is actually likely to reduce the fees. You have 4 large ones now - if that is not enough the keep each other honest is 10 going to be? Maybe - but I don't think it's necessarily any kind of foregone conclusion. I have a suspicion this will turn out to be like the AT&T breakup. You initially had a bunch of new entries but then slowly the market re-agglomerated to a small number of carriers because that's just the nature of the market. Credit cards benefit from their universality - if there are too many of them that would inevitably be lost. Then eventually the more successful cards re-emerge and re-establish universality and the others would pretty much disappear- at least I see that as one possible outcome. The real beneficiary's of this bill might really just be other banks that want the chance because they think they could displace the one of the current 4 big four in the same basic system. Edited December 31, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 44 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: it's not even that the fees are hidden, it's never been a secret that the credit card co takes a cut of every purchase. The question is whether having more COs in the market is actually likely to reduce the fees. You have 4 large ones now - if that is not enough the keep each other honest is 10 going to be? Maybe - but I don't think it's necessarily any kind of foregone conclusion. I have a suspicion this will turn out to be like the AT&T breakup. You initially had a bunch of new entries but then slowly the market re-agglomerated to a small number of carriers because that's just the nature of the market. Credit cards benefit from their universality - if there are too many of them that would inevitably be lost. Then eventually the more successful cards re-emerge and re-establish universality and the others would pretty much disappear- at least I see that as one possible outcome. The real beneficiary's of this bill might really just be other banks that want the chance because they think they could displace the one of the current 4 big four in the same basic system. Question on a tangent on this note: do you guys see the Chinese card Unionpay or the Japanese JCB signs in the Detroit metro? Its pretty common in the DC suburbs. I would think given all the international business and the Japanese diaspora in the Western suburbs of Detroit you would see the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, pfife said: If they passed this law, could I expect prices at places to decrease to account for those hidden fees not being charged anymore? My gut tells me no.... no because they have determined what the public is willing to pay for products regardless of who eventually gets that money, either the business or CC company. It’s like the relationship between player salaries and ticket prices. If an NBA teams payroll was $20M the prices of tickets wouldn’t be different 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.