CMRivdogs Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, chasfh said: Don't political staff get rotated out when an elected representative leaves office? Unless you mean staff not tied to specific elected officials? More often than not when an elected official leaves office staff members find similar jobs. Either with incoming legislators or n someone else's staff. So basically staff stays while the faces change. The question is who is actually pulling the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: More often than not when an elected official leaves office staff members find similar jobs. Either with incoming legislators or n someone else's staff. So basically staff stays while the faces change. The question is who is actually pulling the strings. I don't know for sure either way so i will defer to your experience. As an outsider using critical thinking skills, I would think that even if a staffer glommed onto a new elected representative, they chameleonize themselves to become simpatico with the new boss, which might change some of the approach they had had to the job, or maybe the nature of the power they'd had changes, or the way they can work with other staffers changes. Otherwise, that would suggest that the new elected official, the new boss, is a cipher who has no influence over the staffer, which makes little sense to me, but again, I'm an outsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I have a working theory about this: there has been a concerted, probably at least loosely-collaborative effort to push down the quality of goods and services across the board for at least a couple decades, through the relentless cutting of costs to maximize profits and shareholder value, and to condition the buying public to simply accept that quality is getting worse while we continue to pay the same for everything as before. And then, when they introduce a product that replicates the quality of what we used to get on an everyday basis, they can promote it as a premium product and charge a premium price for it. I put this in the political forum because I really do believe government has the power to hold corporate America's feet to the fire by regulating the optimization of product and service quality on behalf of the American public, but everybody in government is making way too much money from corporations to be motivated to do so, so why bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, chasfh said: there has been a concerted, probably at least loosely-collaborative effort to push down the quality of goods and services across the board for at least a couple decades, this is true, but don't underestimate the fact that is is driven by shoppers willing to drive across town to save a dime on a product. Don't mistake effect for cause. To a substantial degree, consumers in America have gotten the market they demanded. Americans by and large won't pay the increment for marginally higher quality goods, so they don't get them. The the smaller market for the higher quality product then drives up its relative price because economy of scale is lost. Edited October 16, 2023 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 In a lot of latin American countries they have something called the Chinese Mall for purchasing crap. People buy what they consider to be sufficient tools from Harbor Freight all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 46 minutes ago, romad1 said: In a lot of latin American countries they have something called the Chinese Mall for purchasing crap. People buy what they consider to be sufficient tools from Harbor Freight all the time. I have a ton of Harbor Freight tools why? They work and are simple and hard to break. I also have lots of Blue Point/ Snap-On because they make the more specialized tools that no one else makes, supply/demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I have a ton of Harbor Freight tools why? They work and are simple and hard to break. I also have lots of Blue Point/ Snap-On because they make the more specialized tools that no one else makes, supply/demand. Not to get heavy with you and go high road...I have plenty of Chinese crap myself..... Now imagine that those tools were made by IG Farben in 1944 in Auschwitz. Glad you got a deal on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, romad1 said: Not to get heavy with you and go high road...I have plenty of Chinese crap myself..... Now imagine that those tools were made by IG Farben in 1944 in Auschwitz. Glad you got a deal on them. LOL - The first refinery I spent time at still had some units with some pre-WWII equipment and if you knocked the gunk off some of the old valves you could still make out what was left of the embossed swastikas through the scale layers. Actually I would say you're more likely to find lower quality in South American or South Asian goods than Chinese anymore. I don't think you can buy a better laptop than a Lenovo and they aren't priced at the bottom of the market either. iPhones too for that matter. That's why Biden worries today. Nobody needed to care when the Chinese could only make poor quality stuff. Edited October 16, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 Funny story about Apple not being allowed for Chinese government anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 19 minutes ago, romad1 said: Not to get heavy with you and go high road...I have plenty of Chinese crap myself..... Now imagine that those tools were made by IG Farben in 1944 in Auschwitz. Glad you got a deal on them. True but that is a deep rabbit hole. Anybody own a pair of sweet Nike's made in a child sweat shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, romad1 said: Funny story about Apple not being allowed for Chinese government anymore. Yup. That's the $64 dollar question - can Chinese industry maintain excellence in a closed repressive society and if so how long? The Russian example should frighten Chinese business people. Edited October 16, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: True but that is a deep rabbit hole. Anybody own a pair of sweet Nike's made in a child sweat shop? I strongly suspect if the Chinese invade Taiwan we won't be buying their crap for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 54 minutes ago, romad1 said: I strongly suspect if the Chinese invade Taiwan we won't be buying their crap for a while. That is a scary real possibility right now. What better way to start a war than under the cover of other wars around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 35 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: That is a scary real possibility right now. What better way to start a war than under the cover of other wars around the world. This one would involve the United States and its allies immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 minute ago, romad1 said: This one would involve the United States and its allies immediately. Welcome to WW3 if that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Things are always same until they are not, but a thousand years of Chinese culture still argues they will exhaust every avenue to get what they want by guile and pressure before they start an international war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: this is true, but don't underestimate the fact that is is driven by shoppers willing to drive across town to save a dime on a product. I don't think it is driven by that at all. I'm not willing to blame consumers for the ****ty products the corporate powers that be deign to offer them, any more than I blame voters for electing incompetent people when the only practical choices they are given is Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don't think it is driven by that at all. I'm not willing to blame consumers for the ****ty products the corporate powers that be deign to offer them, any more than I blame voters for electing incompetent people when the only practical choices they are given is Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. we'll have to disagree here. When it's tweedle dee and tweedle dum IMO it's all the more important to suss out the marginal difference and go with it. Edited October 16, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 3 hours ago, romad1 said: In a lot of latin American countries they have something called the Chinese Mall for purchasing crap. People buy what they consider to be sufficient tools from Harbor Freight all the time. We had Gibraltar trade center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 31 minutes ago, ben9753 said: Welcome to WW3 if that happens. It’s fully within China’s power to not cause that to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: we'll have to disagree here. When it's tweedle dee and tweedle dum IMO it's all the more important to suss out the marginal difference and go with it. You will probably disagree then with my contention that people cannot think and act as a collective unit in the best interests of the group, but only as a collection of discrete individuals responding to individual incentives irrespective of the best interests of the group. In that way, whole populations can for the most part be manipulated by smart actors—themselves acting as a collective unit rather than as a collection of discrete individuals—that can utilize deep institutional learning of sociological and psychological techniques that, even if a tiny number of targeted individuals might have the same knowledge, certainly cannot be answered or even matched by the targeted whole collection of discrete individuals. We are seeing that accelerate all throughout the world in real time, and once those smart actors master AI as a tool for such manipulation on a mass 1:1 scale, it's likely all over for the rest of us. Our only choice at that point will be the choice to side with the oppressors or side with the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, oblong said: We had Gibraltar trade center. A lot of japanese crap back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ronz Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 hours ago, romad1 said: Now imagine that those tools were made by IG Farben in 1944 in Auschwitz. I thought IG Farben manufactured children's toys? 😉 Triple word score if anyone gets that reference. They're still in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 So the Hitler thing at Spartan Stadium on Saturday..... dumb. Obviously. Someone wasn't paying attention and was letting the trivia thing just go through its process. But the reaction has been overblown. I'm sorry but nobody felt 'unsafe'. That was a word I heard. Even with whats going on in the world. Let's not get stupid. I know MSU has its issues going on and has to put on a strong face in controversy but.... come on. Our kids are stronger than we think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted October 23, 2023 Author Share Posted October 23, 2023 32 minutes ago, oblong said: So the Hitler thing at Spartan Stadium on Saturday..... dumb. Obviously. Someone wasn't paying attention and was letting the trivia thing just go through its process. But the reaction has been overblown. I'm sorry but nobody felt 'unsafe'. That was a word I heard. Even with whats going on in the world. Let's not get stupid. I know MSU has its issues going on and has to put on a strong face in controversy but.... come on. Our kids are stronger than we think. Yep...agree. It was dumb and an example of Sparty can't get out of their own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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