Motown Bombers Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 It doesn’t matter. There’s no way this Supreme Court would let Obama get close to the White House again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 At the risk of going up against the relentless buzzsaw here, it's becoming clear a week afterwards that the debate was indeed a cataclysmic political event that almost certainly will have democracy-altering effects. Blame anyone you want for the ensuing state of affairs, and trash anybody who expresses any level of doubt if it makes you happy, but you can't pretend the thing you say is not happening is indeed not actually happening. It is definitely happening. The best we can hope for is that Biden stays in the race and beats Trump, but that is becoming increasingly unlikely. It's true some polls are showing little or no effect, but there are other polls showing substantial movement toward Trump, and that must mean something, because many people inside the actual house are lipping off about wanting Biden to pull out of the race, while other are battening down the hatches to keep such barbarians away. The obvious disunity alone could be enough to prevent people from crossing over to vote for Biden, but it could also be enough to peel off a number of people who were inclined to vote for Biden because he was obviously more stable than Trump, but now that's back up for debate. And if it turns out that Biden does end up pulling out of the race, that leads to its own potential parade of horribles. First of all, who gets the nomination in his place? So many people believe it will and should be Kamala Harris, but she has been such a cipher during her vice presidency that I don't think anyone has any clear idea what if anything she actually stands for. And do we really believe Kamala is the person with the best chance of beating Trump? Because beating Trump is Job 1, and you can't pull Biden off the ticket without replacing him with the person who has the best chance of beating him. That may or may not be Kamala, but a thorough vetting of possible replacements would be 10 times out of 10 better than following the party tradition of Peter Principling the next person in line up for the job. The Detroit Tigers did exactly that in 2015, and how did that turn out for us? And whether it's Kamala or someone else—let's say Kamala for the rest of the post—Trump is already on record as going to sue in 50 states to keep Biden on the ballot. That probably won't work in most states, but it might work in several other states, including states where the Democrats have a natural leg up. But even if that occurs in, say, a dozen red states only, what is the election going to look like with most states' ballots having the replacement candidate and the remainder having a candidate who can't even take office at all? Who's going to vote for Biden in those outlier states? Practically nobody. That could get Trump the electoral majority he'd love to claim, since that gives him the imprimatur of a mandate, which makes all the horrific changes they want to make that much easier to implement. It's still easier to make awful changes with even a sham mandate from a compromised electoral majority than it would be at the point of an M16 against a clear opposition majority. And even if all that happens and Kamala ends up winning the election, Trump is going to file beaucoup lawsuits seeking to overturn the election as being illegitimate because of the chaos, and once the case that reach the egg that is the Supreme Court actually gets there and the Court expedites a ruling for it—how do you like our chances then? We are now in a world of ****, and what we are left with is hoping Trump gets incapacitated by a stroke or something before Election Day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: At the risk of going up against the relentless buzzsaw here, it's becoming clear a week afterwards that the debate was indeed a cataclysmic political event that almost certainly will have democracy-altering effects. Blame anyone you want for the ensuing state of affairs, and trash anybody who expresses any level of doubt if it makes you happy, but you can't pretend the thing you say is not happening is indeed not actually happening. It is definitely happening. The best we can hope for is that Biden stays in the race and beats Trump, but that is becoming increasingly unlikely. It's true some polls are showing little or no effect, but there are other polls showing substantial movement toward Trump, and that must mean something, because many people inside the actual house are lipping off about wanting Biden to pull out of the race, while other are battening down the hatches to keep such barbarians away. The obvious disunity alone could be enough to prevent people from crossing over to vote for Biden, but it could also be enough to peel off a number of people who were inclined to vote for Biden because he was obviously more stable than Trump, but now that's back up for debate. And if it turns out that Biden does end up pulling out of the race, that leads to its own potential parade of horribles. First of all, who gets the nomination in his place? So many people believe it will and should be Kamala Harris, but she has been such a cipher during her vice presidency that I don't think anyone has any clear idea what if anything she actually stands for. And do we really believe Kamala is the person with the best chance of beating Trump? Because beating Trump is Job 1, and you can't pull Biden off the ticket without replacing him with the person who has the best chance of beating him. That may or may not be Kamala, but a thorough vetting of possible replacements would be 10 times out of 10 better than following the party tradition of Peter Principling the next person in line up for the job. The Detroit Tigers did exactly that in 2015, and how did that turn out for us? And whether it's Kamala or someone else—let's say Kamala for the rest of the post—Trump is already on record as going to sue in 50 states to keep Biden on the ballot. That probably won't work in most states, but it might work in several other states, including states where the Democrats have a natural leg up. But even if that occurs in, say, a dozen red states only, what is the election going to look like with most states' ballots having the replacement candidate and the remainder having a candidate who can't even take office at all? Who's going to vote for Biden in those outlier states? Practically nobody. That could get Trump the electoral majority he'd love to claim, since that gives him the imprimatur of a mandate, which makes all the horrific changes they want to make that much easier to implement. It's still easier to make awful changes with even a sham mandate from a compromised electoral majority than it would be at the point of an M16 against a clear opposition majority. And even if all that happens and Kamala ends up winning the election, Trump is going to file beaucoup lawsuits seeking to overturn the election as being illegitimate because of the chaos, and once the case that reach the egg that is the Supreme Court actually gets there and the Court expedites a ruling for it—how do you like our chances then? We are now in a world of ****, and what we are left with is hoping Trump gets incapacitated by a stroke or something before Election Day. As more and more facts come out about project 2025, Biden will surge in the polls. I see the Biden/Harris ticket destroying Trump. If Joe becomes incapacitated, Harris will take over. Notice how Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025? He says he doesn't know anything about it or anyone behind it. More pure Trump lies. He had a speech at the Heritage Foundation and he has deep ties to the folks who are proposing it. He knows he's in deep water because of it and he expects to just lie his way out of it, the way he lies about everything. Biden, Harris or whomever the democrats run against him will beat him handily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said: As more and more facts come out about project 2025, Biden will surge in the polls. I see the Biden/Harris ticket destroying Trump. If Joe becomes incapacitated, Harris will take over. Notice how Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025? He says he doesn't know anything about it or anyone behind it. More pure Trump lies. He had a speech at the Heritage Foundation and he has deep ties to the folks who are proposing it. He knows he's in deep water because of it and he expects to just lie his way out of it, the way he lies about everything. Biden, Harris or whomever the democrats run against him will beat him handily. Your keyboard to God's monitor. 🤞🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 21 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: As more and more facts come out about project 2025, Biden will surge in the polls. I see the Biden/Harris ticket destroying Trump. If Joe becomes incapacitated, Harris will take over. Notice how Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025? He says he doesn't know anything about it or anyone behind it. More pure Trump lies. He had a speech at the Heritage Foundation and he has deep ties to the folks who are proposing it. He knows he's in deep water because of it and he expects to just lie his way out of it, the way he lies about everything. Biden, Harris or whomever the democrats run against him will beat him handily. The ideas about "Project 25" have already come out, but the Democrats are doing a poor job articulating exactly how our democracy is in peril. Are we exprecting Biden to be able to do that? So far, they don't sound any different than conservatives raving about socialism taking over America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Just now, Tiger337 said: The ideas about "Project 25" have already come out, but the Democrats are doing a poor job articulating exactly how our democracy is in peril. Are we exprecting Biden to be able to do that? So far, they don't sound any different than conservatives raving about socialism taking over America. As more and more of it comes out and Trump lies more and more about it, watch the democratic nominee surge in the polls. Trump's lies are finally going to catch up to him and people will see him for what he really is, a lying conman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Just now, Sports_Freak said: As more and more of it comes out and Trump lies more and more about it, watch the democratic nominee surge in the polls. Trump's lies are finally going to catch up to him and people will see him for what he really is, a lying conman. They've had 40+ years to catch on. I doubt the light will suddenly go on now. I was just reading about Project 25 and I don't see it as being any more outrageous than the outrageous stuff that has come out the last 8 years. As long as the media keeps normalizing Trump and the Democratic leaders continue not to convincingly communicate the dangers of a Trump presidency, I don't see anything changing. I think our only chance is that Trump says something so shocking or a tape is revealed of him saying something so shocking that people have to pay attention. Americns are shallow, so the message needs to be shallow unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 The thing is… people are not surprised by Bidens performance and even if he, ahem, passes away or resigns… so what. How are we hurt by that? If someone is inclined to vote for Biden why would that scenario stop them? They already voted for an old feeble guy with Harris as the waiter in wings. I’m supposed to believe that actual voters saw that and said “damn, he is old. I can’t vote for him, he might die and Kamala is president”? That was the choice in 2020 and he won. The post debate reaction are sports fans venting about their favorite team after their closer blew the game in the 9th. They are pissed and angry. But tomorrow they will be back at the game cheering them on. you know who else might die? Clarance Thomas or Sam Alito. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 44 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They've had 40+ years to catch on. I doubt the light will suddenly go on now. I was just reading about Project 25 and I don't see it as being any more outrageous than the outrageous stuff that has come out the last 8 years. As long as the media keeps normalizing Trump and the Democratic leaders continue not to convincingly communicate the dangers of a Trump presidency, I don't see anything changing. I think our only chance is that Trump says something so shocking or a tape is revealed of him saying something so shocking that people have to pay attention. Americns are shallow, so the message needs to be shallow unfortunately. Americans seem to have very short memories. When Trump lies and says he had the best economy in the history of mankind or when he says he's the healthiest president in history, nobody calls him out on those obvious lies. Keep reading about project 2025, it calls for the elimination of many US institutions. It's why Trump is lying to try to distance himself from it, he knows when people read it, anyone supporting it will never get elected. He just needs to be called out on his lies. The MSM has to stop asking him any questions because it just leads to more lies. He'll still get his 25% to 30% support but by the end of summer, the democratic nominee will be up by double digits in every legitimate poll. Trump will be dragging the entire republican party down with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 14 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Americans seem to have very short memories. When Trump lies and says he had the best economy in the history of mankind or when he says he's the healthiest president in history, nobody calls him out on those obvious lies. Keep reading about project 2025, it calls for the elimination of many US institutions. It's why Trump is lying to try to distance himself from it, he knows when people read it, anyone supporting it will never get elected. He just needs to be called out on his lies. The MSM has to stop asking him any questions because it just leads to more lies. He'll still get his 25% to 30% support but by the end of summer, the democratic nominee will be up by double digits in every legitimate poll. Trump will be dragging the entire republican party down with him. I really hope you're right, but I've been hearing the same thing for 8 years. There is no way in hell that Biden or any other Democratic nominee will be up by double digits in the polls. We can only hope they can whittle away the deficit in a few swing states. Don't expect any help from the media. They love Trump and will continue to normalize his behavior through election day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Nominating conventions are boring. Can you imagine one where they actually nominate the candidate? I don't think it would hurt, I think it would help, actually. The new energy a Harris, Whitmer, Newsom or Shapiro would bring would be fantastic, it would be an absolute plus. Who would Harris' or Whitmer's Running Mate be? It would have to be someone with some Center or even Military credentials. I would imagine it would have to be a Governor or former Senator. Andy Beshear would be the best fit as a Democrat who is popular in a red state (Kentucky would still vote for Trump, however). I don't think Beshear really even wants that right now. Maybe Roy Cooper. Taylor Swift will be 35 in December. With this celebrity-obsessed culture, that would do it for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Nominating conventions are boring. Can you imagine one where they actually nominate the candidate? I don't think it would hurt, I think it would help, actually. The new energy a Harris, Whitmer, Newsom or Shapiro would bring would be fantastic, it would be an absolute plus. Who would Harris' or Whitmer's Running Mate be? It would have to be someone with some Center or even Military credentials. I would imagine it would have to be a Governor or former Senator. Andy Beshear would be the best fit as a Democrat who is popular in a red state (Kentucky would still vote for Trump, however). I don't think Beshear really even wants that right now. Maybe Roy Cooper. Taylor Swift will be 35 in December. With this celebrity-obsessed culture, that would do it for sure. Michelle Obama...lol Edited July 6 by Sports_Freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I really hope you're right, but I've been hearing the same thing for 8 years. There is no way in hell that Biden or any other Democratic nominee will be up by double digits in the polls. We can only hope they can whittle away the deficit in a few swing states. Don't expect any help from the media. They love Trump and will continue to normalize his behavior through election day. Donald Trump has done about a dozen things that should have brought his campaigns down. But I really think this Project 2025 is the end. He'll still get his 35% or so of ignorant and stubborn voters but this radical change of democracy isn't something a majority of Americans will go for. He's going to end up taking the entire republican party down with him. And even though I'm a Democrat, this isn't a good thing for our country. We need those checks and balances that go with having a 2 party system. With just need to sweep the MAGAs out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Donald Trump has done about a dozen things that should have brought his campaigns down. But I really think this Project 2025 is the end. He'll still get his 35% or so of ignorant and stubborn voters but this radical change of democracy isn't something a majority of Americans will go for. He's going to end up taking the entire republican party down with him. And even though I'm a Democrat, this isn't a good thing for our country. We need those checks and balances that go with having a 2 party system. With just need to sweep the MAGAs out of the way. A lot of Germans felt the same way in the late 20s, but look what happened. I really do think that if Trump wins and the Republicans gain control of the house and senate (they already have the other branch in their pocket), they only need to flip a few state legislatures to be able to radically change our constitution. And yes, with Trump, senile and angry, I have no doubt that several Democratic state level politicians are going to start getting arrested and charged with crimes to get them out of the way. We're at a very very scary place right now. Actually, he won't even need to have them arrested. He'll just tell his cult to go kill them and well, thanks to our Supreme Court, he won't get in any trouble. He'll just tell his cult if you kill them, I'll pardon you. He wants to be a King, and if given a chance, he's gonna get his wish. I'm 8 years away from collecting Social Security (I could go sooner if I wanted). Put this Republican Party in charge, that's gonna be long gone. All that money I've put in my whole working life.........POOF, gone. Too old to work now? Too bad, should have made yourself a millionaire. And all those red state welfare and disability collectors are going to be in for quite a shock, but thanks to their votes, they won't be able to do anything to stop it. They'll have their King and he'll piss on them and tell them it's raining. Edited July 6 by Motor City Sonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 9 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Donald Trump has done about a dozen things that should have brought his campaigns down. Just a dozen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 I'm not right about much, but I told you all here (or the other board) as soon as he took office that he would refuse to leave and he DID. The only thing that prevented him was probably a few generals and a vice president who actually did his job (risking his life). Trump won't make that mistake again. He will surround himself with people like Michael Flynn, who he'll make Secretary of State or Chief Of Staff. Or people like that corrupt Sherrif, David Clarke. People like that will have no problem breaking every law to protect Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, oblong said: The thing is… people are not surprised by Bidens performance and even if he, ahem, passes away or resigns… so what. How are we hurt by that? If someone is inclined to vote for Biden why would that scenario stop them? They already voted for an old feeble guy with Harris as the waiter in wings. I’m supposed to believe that actual voters saw that and said “damn, he is old. I can’t vote for him, he might die and Kamala is president”? That was the choice in 2020 and he won. The post debate reaction are sports fans venting about their favorite team after their closer blew the game in the 9th. They are pissed and angry. But tomorrow they will be back at the game cheering them on. you know who else might die? Clarance Thomas or Sam Alito. Trump is showing signs of mortality as well. Watch his gate, not as pronounced as Biden's (neuropathy, as well as the effects of a broken foot in 2021). Trump is obese, it's been long reported his diet is not the best. Not good for a 78 year old man. It was also well known that the former President seldom reported to the office before 10 AM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 9 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Trump is showing signs of mortality as well. Watch his gate, not as pronounced as Biden's (neuropathy, as well as the effects of a broken foot in 2021). Trump is obese, it's been long reported his diet is not the best. Not good for a 78 year old man. It was also well known that the former President seldom reported to the office before 10 AM. Right! Imagine headlines “Biden won’t have any events until lunchtime”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 44 minutes ago, oblong said: Right! Imagine headlines “Biden won’t have any events until lunchtime”. They've already started something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: Nominating conventions are boring. Can you imagine one where they actually nominate the candidate? I don't think it would hurt, I think it would help, actually. The new energy a Harris, Whitmer, Newsom or Shapiro would bring would be fantastic, it would be an absolute plus. Who would Harris' or Whitmer's Running Mate be? It would have to be someone with some Center or even Military credentials. I would imagine it would have to be a Governor or former Senator. Andy Beshear would be the best fit as a Democrat who is popular in a red state (Kentucky would still vote for Trump, however). I don't think Beshear really even wants that right now. Maybe Roy Cooper. Taylor Swift will be 35 in December. With this celebrity-obsessed culture, that would do it for sure. Biden, most people believe the VP is basically a nothing job. Harris can do the heavy lifting with Biden there as a consultant so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said: Trump is showing signs of mortality as well. Watch his gate, not as pronounced as Biden's (neuropathy, as well as the effects of a broken foot in 2021). Trump is obese, it's been long reported his diet is not the best. Not good for a 78 year old man. It was also well known that the former President seldom reported to the office before 10 AM. Oh come on now. The esteemed Dr. Ronny Jackson has declared him one of the fittest people on earth and he would know too since he’s written scrips for millions of people. Trump’s done very very well on many congestive tests. One anonymous doctor told him that he aced it and did better than anyone ever has. It’s almost as if you are making this stuff up CM. Edited July 6 by Hongbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Um, I believe that’s Dr. Ronny Johnson. 😎 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) Trump is lying when he says he knows nothing about this or the people behind it; Edited July 7 by Sports_Freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 We saw how Trump handled the COVID crisis first hand, we also know he's going to hand Ukraine over to Putin (as well as whatever else Vlad wants). Trump failed the leadership test 2017-2021. We also know the second time around he's likely to appoint more sycophants to do his bidding (televised executions anyone?) I'll take a half in the bag Biden over Trump who has never ever played with a full deck upstairs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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