POLITICS SCHMALITICS

[ewsieg]

45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Too many Gen Zs I know have little idea of any difference between Trump and Biden. Or, more exactly, neither affects them or their daily lives, so why bother thinking about them?

There is a good argument that this is true.  Look at our China and Southern border policies right now compared to Trump.  Rhetoric is different, but the policies themselves are very similar.  

For them, maybe just point out abortion though.  Even if it doesn't affect their daily lives, I think the last election showed how many folks will bother showing up to vote over it.  

As for the old/young swing, i've heard that argument from democrats for 30 years and my dad (big JFK fan/democrat growing up) remembers his dad saying the same thing.  At some point you need to produce results if you want to hang on to those voters though.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, ewsieg said:

There is a good argument that this is true.  Look at our China and Southern border policies right now compared to Trump.  Rhetoric is different, but the policies themselves are very similar.  

For them, maybe just point out abortion though.  Even if it doesn't affect their daily lives, I think the last election showed how many folks will bother showing up to vote over it.  

As for the old/young swing, i've heard that argument from democrats for 30 years and my dad (big JFK fan/democrat growing up) remembers his dad saying the same thing.  At some point you need to produce results if you want to hang on to those voters though.

it goes back that Lee talked about. You are exactly correct, the young voter skews left. If that voter stayed the same, then a blue bulge would pass throught the chart above like a pig in a python, but as noted, it hasn't happened because there is an average fade right with age that keeps the chart looking roughly the same from cohort to cohort. 

Now as a boomer, I wonder if boomer's may actually drift less either way because we were so strongly radicalized by Vietnam in our political formative years. Will that make our preferences stickier? There is an assumption that the boomers do drift right because old voters skew GOP today, but for there is a false premise at work there. The boomers ar always assumed to be liberal because of the srength of 60-70s left side activism, but that was never a majority of the boomers. The majority of us were always straight arrows, Young Repubs for Reagan, etc.

[CMRivdogs]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Now as a boomer, I wonder if boomer's may actually drift less either way because we were so strongly radicalized by Vietnam in our political formative years. Will that make our preferences stickier? There is an assumption that the boomers do drift right because old voters skew GOP today, but for there is a false premise at work there. The boomers ar always assumed to be liberal because of the srength of 60-70s left side activism, but that was never a majority of the boomers. The majority of us were always straight arrows, Young Repubs for Reagan, etc.

I tend to agree with a lot of this but also feel that what you are exposed to growing up and as an adult also has an affect on where you lean on issues. As a Boomer I came of age during Viet Nam, lived thru both Kennedys and MLK's assignations between the ages of 12 and 16, throw in Watergate and the Wars Iraq and Afghanistan.
 

Also as an adult I've moved several times, became aware of customs and points of views that I wouldn't have been exposed to had we stayed in SW Pennsylvania as a youngster or SW Virginia as an adult. My wife and I have traveled a bit which I think also changes the way you perceive things. I see people who never spent more than a week or so any significant distance where they were raised. Associating with many of the same folks they went to high school with (on both sides of the aisle). If you live your entire life in a bubble, your views become more and more one sided as you age, 

 

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

If you live your entire life in a bubble, your views become more and more one sided as you age

QFT

[CMRivdogs]

Fifty years ago tonight….

 

[oblong]

49.... but who's counting.

Never understood the Ford Pardon controversy from the standpoint that he 'cut a deal' for a pardon in exchange for resignation. Ford didn't have to do any deal.  Nixon had no leverage. Ford was going to be the next President regardless.

That's not to address whether he should have done it.   But I'll go ahead and blame the media for some of that.  A month into his Presidency and every question Ford got was about Nixon.  He had problems to address and too much of his time was spent answering those questions.

[Tiger337]

23 hours ago, chasfh said:

Too many Gen Zs I know have little idea of any difference between Trump and Biden. Or, more exactly, neither affects them or their daily lives, so why bother thinking about them?

That's how I felt most of my life and I still think politicians have very little effect on my life.  However,as I have gotten older, I have grown to understand that they have an effect on other people's lives and some day I might be one of those people.  

[gehringer_2]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:40 AM, chasfh said:

Too many Gen Zs I know have little idea of any difference between Trump and Biden. Or, more exactly, neither affects them or their daily lives, so why bother thinking about them?

Z came out to vote in decent numbers in the last cycle. It's possible apathy is higher again in the newest 18-21 cohort - only time will tell.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Z came out to vote in decent numbers in the last cycle. It's possible apathy is higher again in the newest 18-21 cohort - only time will tell.

I could see college-age women being far more likely to vote than college-age men, if for no other reason than the abortion issue, which is certainly a clear and present issue for them.

[gehringer_2]

GOP referendum in OHIO to limit the public's ability to pass future referenda is going down in flames. The immediate result is that Ohio's harsh legislative abortion bans are going to be repealed by the public in the next general election.

We can also hope that the reaction against this GOP overplay may push the state back toward the middle where it has traditionally been, but that is more doubtful.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/08/us/ohio-election-issue-1-results.html

Edited August 9, 2023 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

I hope the GOP keeps running on abortion. It’s a real winner. 

[Crazy Cat Gentleman]

🔥 🔥 🔥

Wilson is said to be running in Gym Jordan's district. what a pleasant change that would be. (not that I'm really holding out hope for that gerrymandered-assed district.)

[pfife]

So if tue election was fraudulent in Ohio, then maybe we can't trust the Republic Party to get rid of election fraud, given they dominate state gov in the nation's armpit er Ohio and just administered a fraudulent election. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by pfife

[casimir]

I will say in addition to the out of the ordinary August date and limited voting initiatives, there was another wrinkle yesterday.  In previous elections, the ballot was tabulated at the voting machine where you choose your options.  Yesterday, the voting was handled at the normal voting machine and then you took your printed ballot to a scanner for official collection and tabulation.  That seemed odd to me.  And I could see how some folks would be wary of their printed ballots being visible in the walk from one machine to the other.

[pfife]

Everywhere I've ever voted is basically scantron and you walk it over to tabulation machine but you get a manilla folder like cover to conceal the ballot and they have you hold that envelope while you feed it into the machine.

If you give a **** about hiding your vote that is.    I personally don't give a rats ass if the world knows I vote against the republic party

Edited August 9, 2023 by pfife

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, casimir said:

I will say in addition to the out of the ordinary August date and limited voting initiatives, there was another wrinkle yesterday.  In previous elections, the ballot was tabulated at the voting machine where you choose your options.  Yesterday, the voting was handled at the normal voting machine and then you took your printed ballot to a scanner for official collection and tabulation.  That seemed odd to me.  And I could see how some folks would be wary of their printed ballots being visible in the walk from one machine to the other.

No sleeves for the ballots? Our system is a paper ballot in a sleeve. You mark it, put it back in the sleeve, walk it to the tabulator, slide it out far enough for the end to catch and the tabulator sucks it in, reads it and drops in the lock box down below. Easy peasy, nobody sees nothin' 

Like a lot of us 'seasoned' fans here, I came of voting age with the huge old grey half-ton 6 ft tall machines that unfolded into a whole booth around you - curtain and all. But I never trusted them because as you pulled that big red handle to open the curtain when you were done, all of your selections on the panel were cleared out. Of course the machine had to reset for the next voter, but you never got any confirmation at all your votes had been counted. I always found that unnerving. I suppose the scanner could be throwing your vote away just as easily, but at least it's taking the effort to lie to you if it is.  

Edited August 9, 2023 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

6 minutes ago, pfife said:

Everywhere I've ever voted is basically scantron and you walk it over to tabulation machine but you get a manilla folder like cover to conceal the ballot and they have you hold that envelope while you feed it into the machine.

If you give a **** about hiding your vote that is.    I personally don't give a rats ass if the world knows I vote against the republic party

I don't recall ever going from one machine where I voted to a collection machine.  I've been in different machines, but as far as I can remember, and this goes back to when my parents would take us as kids, I've only ever seen solo machines.

Personally I don't care if anyone sees my vote, but I understand others may be apprehensive given how nutty the climate has gotten lately.

[casimir]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

No sleeves for the ballots? Our system is a paper ballot in a sleeve. You mark it, put it back in the sleeve, walk it to the tabulator, slide it out far enough for the end to catch and the tabulator sucks it in, reads it and drops in the lock box down below. Easy peasy, nobody sees nothin' 

Like a lot of us 'seasoned' fans here, I came of voting age with the huge old grey half-ton 6 ft tall machines that unfolded into a whole booth around you - curtain and all. But I never trusted them because as you pulled that big red handle to open the curtain when you were done, all of your selections on the panel were cleared out. Of course the machine had to reset for the next voter, but you never got any confirmation at all your votes had been counted. I always found that unnerving. I suppose the scanner could be throwing your vote away just as easily, but at least it's taking the effort to lie to you if it is.  

YES!  I remember those monsters!  As a kid, I thought those were impressive big time deals.

[pfife]

Sorry Cas I should have been more clear.    They have very rickety tables with very rickety privacy dividers where you fill out the scantron, then take it to the tabulation machine and feed it in using the privacy envelope.   There's only 1 machine involved.

I am bad at following directions and accidentally submitted a spoiled ballot (voted for too many candidates in one section) and the tabulation machine knew it and notified me.   I thought that was cool and interesting, the machine is applying some quality rules and thresholds on ingestion. 

[CMRivdogs]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

No sleeves for the ballots? Our system is a paper ballot in a sleeve. You mark it, put it back in the sleeve, walk it to the tabulator, slide it out far enough for the end to catch and the tabulator sucks it in, reads it and drops in the lock box down below. Easy peasy, nobody sees nothin' 

Like a lot of us 'seasoned' fans here, I came of voting age with the huge old grey half-ton 6 ft tall machines that unfolded into a whole booth around you - curtain and all. But I never trusted them because as you pulled that big red handle to open the curtain when you were done, all of your selections on the panel were cleared out. Of course the machine had to reset for the next voter, but you never got any confirmation at all your votes had been counted. I always found that unnerving. I suppose the scanner could be throwing your vote away just as easily, but at least it's taking the effort to lie to you if it is.  

I'm old enough to remember pink paper ballots. I can't remember whether there were envelopes or not (probably were) and we dropped them in a big metal box with a slit.

After the poles closed the old(er) ladies (who worked every election since Roosevelt) counted them by hand. I never remember anyone complaining, except maybe my grandfather who had to fend for himself at dinner time.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

I'm old enough to remember pink paper ballots. I can't remember whether there were envelopes or not (probably were) and we dropped them in a big metal box with a slit.

After the poles closed the old(er) ladies (who worked every election since Roosevelt) counted them by hand. I never remember anyone complaining, except maybe my grandfather who had to fend for himself at dinner time.

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Ziesenheim twins were born identical, but politically they were night and day.....

[Motor City Sonics]

I love her.   I adore her.  Not in a sexualized way.  I want her to be President one day.   

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gretchen-whitmer-michigan-abortion-lgbtq_n_64e0d973e4b0dd561030f596

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I love her.   I adore her.  Not in a sexualized way.  I want her to be President one day.   

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gretchen-whitmer-michigan-abortion-lgbtq_n_64e0d973e4b0dd561030f596

She’s got a puncher’s chance to get there.

[gehringer_2]

The thing that I think is very hard to women in American politics is to hit is that perfect note on disposition. Whitmer is almost Reaganesque in her ability to be Sunny yet Serious. Hillary I think aspired to get to 'Happy Warrior' but still came across to too many as a cold. We don't really know if she has the all around skills to go national but there is definitely some unique talent there.