POLITICS SCHMALITICS

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

In my book it's pretty simple, if you can't afford to operate without putting other people's lives at risk, maybe you shouldn't be operating.

This all sounds good in theory, but there are a lot of short line railroads in this country that feed the larger Class Is, and while they may not turn huge profits, they are absolutely vital in allowing customers to get their products from Point A to B. And they are often serving rural communities, the same ones we often discuss as having been left behind.

Granted a lot of these railroads have been swallowed up by larger holding companies (Genesee&Wyoming, Watco), but nonetheless, the above statement, taken to its logical limit, could potentially leave a lot of rail customers behind in underserved communities.

I do agree with the general view that railroads need to do a better job advancing safety, but there are real economic consequences to lines shutting down as well.... hence why the FRA, beyond oversight, offers grants for safety and operations as well.

[CMRivdogs]

For everything there is a season. Her's was a very long one

 

[gehringer_2]

16 hours ago, mtutiger said:

This all sounds good in theory, but there are a lot of short line railroads in this country that feed the larger Class Is, and while they may not turn huge profits, they are absolutely vital in allowing customers to get their products from Point A to B. And they are often serving rural communities, the same ones we often discuss as having been left behind.

this may all be true but  compounding old bad decisions with more new bad decisions is no way to make progress.

Edited February 14, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

this may all be true but  compounding old bad decisions with more new bad decisions is no way to make progress.

We are compounding old bad decisions with good decisions by offering federal grants to railroads to improve grade crossings and through State DOTs doing analysis and inventory of grade crossings to optimize which are the most dangerous and require being made grade separated or which ones should be upgraded to being signalized. And the railroads themselves do kick in dollars as well to upgrade intersections.

But lets be practical. Over 200,000 grade crossings in the United States, 90,000 private and some subset which are equipped only with passive warning devices (ie. crossbucks and/or stop signs). Let's say that there's a need to signalize 120,000 crossings (estimated from FRA numbers), with an the average cost to signalize a grade crossing in the United States of $400,000. That math gets you to $48,000,000,000. 

Again, all good in theory, but with that price tag, who is paying for it? The government? The railroads?

We can be idealistic all we want, but practically, getting to an end goal like that is going to have to be an incremental thing.

[Screwball]

We've had railroads since the 1800s and now we've fucked it all up.

Congrats America

We couldn't pour piss out of our boot if the directions were on the bottom.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Screwball

[mtutiger]

24 minutes ago, Screwball said:

We've had railroads since the 1800s and now we've fucked it all up.

They also didn't have roads in the 1800s to interact with... much of the danger presented today (not all, as evidenced by East Palestine, which appears to have more to do with mechanical failure on one of the axles) comes from roads interacting with rails. Not to mention the type of commodities being shipped back then... not a lot of vinyl chloride back in the 1880s.

If you look at the numbers, those interactions with roads are getting safer, but that is because a lot of grade crossings that were built with the technology of the time back in the 1940s-1970s have been upgraded to signalized crossings. A lot of technology exists now that didn't as well... aside from upgrades to traditional gate arms and signals, grade crossings in higher density areas can now be designed more pedestrian friendly with gate arms and emergency exit gates to allow egress for people trapped inside a grade crossing after the signals go off.

Again, a lot of the dangers are preventable and the industry needs to do more and needs oversight. But it's not like the problems didn't exist in the past, in fact they were worse.

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, mtutiger said:

We are compounding old bad decisions with good decisions

if you want to know the real reason the railroads have problems, it's because we don't make trucks pay for the cost of the damage they do to roads. If we did, truck freight costs would rise, and rail transport everywhere would be more competitive. More externalized costs and crooked social cost accounting. Find a problem in America and I'll wager you can easily find a route to a business where costs have been allowed to be externalized  - even guns, maybe especially guns.

Edited February 15, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

if you want to know the real reason the railroads have problems, it's because we don't make trucks pay for the cost of the damage they do to roads. If we did, truck freight costs would rise, and rail transport everywhere would be more competitive. 

At least on the freight side, railroads aren't struggling right now. Intermodal business in particular (ie. containers) is robust and they have market superiority over trucks in that sector, among others

Edited February 15, 2023 by mtutiger

[ewsieg]

8 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

For everything there is a season. Her's was a very long one

 

Glad to see her chief of staff is choosing not play Weekend at Bernie's anymore..  

Edited February 15, 2023 by ewsieg

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Screwball said:

We've had railroads since the 1800s and now we've fucked it all up.

Congrats America

Score one for the free market!

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, mtutiger said:

We are compounding old bad decisions with good decisions by offering federal grants to railroads to improve grade crossings and through State DOTs doing analysis and inventory of grade crossings to optimize which are the most dangerous and require being made grade separated or which ones should be upgraded to being signalized. And the railroads themselves do kick in dollars as well to upgrade intersections.

But lets be practical. Over 200,000 grade crossings in the United States, 90,000 private and some subset which are equipped only with passive warning devices (ie. crossbucks and/or stop signs). Let's say that there's a need to signalize 120,000 crossings (estimated from FRA numbers), with an the average cost to signalize a grade crossing in the United States of $400,000. That math gets you to $48,000,000,000. 

Again, all good in theory, but with that price tag, who is paying for it? The government? The railroads?

We can be idealistic all we want, but practically, getting to an end goal like that is going to have to be an incremental thing.

The government taxpayer will, and the money will go to the biggest companies, who will pocket the lion’s share of it and use the rest of it to pay employees who will generate that portion back into the economy.

Rinse and repeat until corporations with government connections and their bought-and-paid-for lackeys in Washington and America’s capitals control literally all the money and then parcel it out on an as-needed basis to keep the workers showing up for those jobs.

Oh … wait …

[Tigerbomb13]

Norfolk Southern strikes again

[romad1]

4 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

Norfolk Southern strikes again

Clown company. 

[oblong]

Jimmy Carter entering hospice care. 98 years old. 

[Hongbit]

50 minutes ago, oblong said:

Jimmy Carter entering hospice care. 98 years old. 

A life well lived.  It sounds like he is with his family and at peace.  

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

A life well lived.  It sounds like he is with his family and at peace.  

Maybe like Shrub, and even Obama to a lesser extent, Carter would have done better if the Presidency had come to him later in life. In any case, I don't know if we've had a President redeem himself to the public after a less than positively viewed presidency to the degree Jimmy Carter has. Most ex-presidents who leave office less than at peace with their tenure become crotchety old guys like Hoover, or like Nixon insist on trying to regain some kind of relevancy that the public has no interest in bestowing. Carter as President was sort of an immodest, small minded, self-righteous jerk. But he mellowed out and found a better self in his retirement.

[oblong]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Maybe like Shrub, and even Obama to a lesser extent, Carter would have done better if the Presidency had come to him later in life. In any case, I don't know if we've had a President redeem himself to the public after a less than positively viewed presidency to the degree Jimmy Carter has. Most ex-presidents who leave office less than at peace with their tenure become crotchety old guys like Hoover, or like Nixon insist on trying to regain some kind of relevancy that the public has no interest in bestowing. Carter as President was sort of an immodest, small minded, self-righteous jerk. But he mellowed out and found a better self in his retirement.

I’ll throw out Hoover and Truman as guys who got redemption. Truman just by paying more attention, thanks to the Ambrose book, and Hoover for his post WWII work on saving Europe from famine. Can debate it obviously.  

Ford just cashed it all in and joined any board that would have him. 

[Motor City Sonics]

I will defend Ford on the fact that he had the strangest road to the Presidency of any in history.   I don't blame him for any post-office finances.   He was in a no-win situation.   Took two guys stepping down out of shame.    The things that Agnew and Nixon did now probably wouldn't end a Presidency. 

Regarding Carter, I think he tried to be realistic on a lot of issues and that's what clobbered him.  Nobody wants to be told that the truth is hard.   The Republicans made deals to make sure those hostages would never get out under Carter's watch.  To me it's unforgivable.    If they had been freed or rescued before the election, Carter probably would have won.  He refused to campaign while they were still in captivity.    That would never happen now - for either party.   

 

[gehringer_2]

29 minutes ago, oblong said:

Hoover for his post WWII work on saving Europe from famine. Can debate it obviously.

yeah - hoover was of service during the war but got to be a crank later.

[Motor City Sonics]

18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah - hoover was of service during the war but got to be a crank later.

he was always kind of a crank

 

[oblong]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah - hoover was of service during the war but got to be a crank later.

I never knew any of that until I read a great book about the relationships between presidents. Roosevelt stripped Hoover’s name off the dam. Truman put it back. 

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, oblong said:

I never knew any of that until I read a great book about the relationships between presidents. Roosevelt stripped Hoover’s name off the dam. Truman put it back. 

Hoover and Truman were still alive when I was kid. But they were both pretty well kept in the closet by their respective parties. 🙈🙉🙊

Edited February 19, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

It will be very interesting to see the reaction of Republicans when Carter passes away in the coming days.  Especially the ones under 50.  

[mtutiger]

10 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It will be very interesting to see the reaction of Republicans when Carter passes away in the coming days.  Especially the ones under 50.  

I'm watching Georgia Republicans in particular... thus far, outside of Brad Raffensperger, there hasn't been a ton of comments that I've seen. And Raffensperger is kinda the one you'd expect to comment given he's decidedly in the "sane" wing.

In general, one expects more magnanimity than not.

[Motor City Sonics]

I just saw a promo for RuPaul's Drag Race and Arianna Grande is going to be on it.    I am just wondering when Ron is going to ban her from performing in Florida.