1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 And if everyone is sick of patience, or has none left, then... Too fucking bad. Not to be rude but... the only way the team structure changes is if Avila makes changes or if Ilitch decides to make a change to the "man at the top (AA)". Otherwise.... So you're sort of stuck. You have no choice but to live with this team as is, and with all these rookies coming up, until Ilitch says different. One can always just walk away if you've had enough with patience. But I've seen enough to know to stick with this team. Maybe I'm influenced by my teenage years when Whitaker/ Trammell/ Morris/ Rozema/ Petry/ Parrish/ Gibson/ Kemp/ Jason Thompson/ and others all came up at the same time and that may be clouding my vision... But I don't think so. Worst news: Those guys all came up essentially from 1977-1979... And I had to WAIT FIVE YEARS MORE before they won a championship in 1984. I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. Quote
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 Cumulative records since the beginning of the 2017 season and that winning percentage extrapolated to a 162 game season: 1 Quote
1776 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 I’ve seen several comments here and elsewhere that weigh the possibility of Hinch moving into the GM position here if Avila vacates the position. I’m on record as opposing anything like that. I agree with any and everybody that contends we need to go outside this organization. I don’t believe Hinch has the experience or background to sit in the GM’s position. Frankly, I doubt he’d want the job anyway. Quote
1776 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 3:07 PM, 1984Echoes said: I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. Expand I respect your perspective on this but I believe the issue isn’t as much about patience as it is about competence. There has been ample time and ample opportunity to turn this fiasco around and it hasn’t happened. Until major changes are made I’m not expecting a different outcome. 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 3:07 PM, 1984Echoes said: And if everyone is sick of patience, or has none left, then... Too fucking bad. Not to be rude but... the only way the team structure changes is if Avila makes changes or if Ilitch decides to make a change to the "man at the top (AA)". Otherwise.... So you're sort of stuck. You have no choice but to live with this team as is, and with all these rookies coming up, until Ilitch says different. One can always just walk away if you've had enough with patience. But I've seen enough to know to stick with this team. Maybe I'm influenced by my teenage years when Whitaker/ Trammell/ Morris/ Rozema/ Petry/ Parrish/ Gibson/ Kemp/ Jason Thompson/ and others all came up at the same time and that may be clouding my vision... But I don't think so. Worst news: Those guys all came up essentially from 1977-1979... And I had to WAIT FIVE YEARS MORE before they won a championship in 1984. I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. Expand I remember patience from 1989 to 2005. It's more fun to bitch and moan. 1 Quote
1776 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 As of this weekend, Verlander and Scherzer were tied at 3,140 strikeouts apiece in the their MLB careers. 1 Quote
pyrotigers Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 12:44 AM, gehringer_2 said: that's a bit revisionist. Stewart's best BA at AAA was 260, so having him come up and not be able to break 220 shouldn't have been a big surprise. He hit for good power in the minors, but was never the kind of hitter in the minors that would make you think he would be a good hitter in the majors - you could only hope at best he would be a Rob Deer type, low OBP, maybe good power, but he wasn't even that. Expand Sure, and if we had a 23 year old with a. 850 ops and 30 dongs in a pitcher friendly AA right now everyone would be calling them a top prospect, not like those bums from the past Quote
pyrotigers Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 3:07 PM, 1984Echoes said: And if everyone is sick of patience, or has none left, then... Too fucking bad. Not to be rude but... the only way the team structure changes is if Avila makes changes or if Ilitch decides to make a change to the "man at the top (AA)". Otherwise.... So you're sort of stuck. You have no choice but to live with this team as is, and with all these rookies coming up, until Ilitch says different. One can always just walk away if you've had enough with patience. But I've seen enough to know to stick with this team. Maybe I'm influenced by my teenage years when Whitaker/ Trammell/ Morris/ Rozema/ Petry/ Parrish/ Gibson/ Kemp/ Jason Thompson/ and others all came up at the same time and that may be clouding my vision... But I don't think so. Worst news: Those guys all came up essentially from 1977-1979... And I had to WAIT FIVE YEARS MORE before they won a championship in 1984. I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. Expand Cool, I've learned that being patient with morons is how things like your avatar happen, so I'd rather pull the plug now rather than wait and see the Tigers go 30-132 in five years Quote
1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 3:35 PM, Tiger337 said: I remember patience from 1989 to 2005. It's more fun to bitch and moan. Expand HAH!!! Of course...! Quote
1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:32 PM, pyrotigers said: Cool, I've learned that being patient with morons is how things like your avatar happen, so I'd rather pull the plug now rather than wait and see the Tigers go 30-132 in five years Expand Well... We'll see about that... One way or another... Quote
Jim Cowan Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 I remember Stewart being on his way to challenging the Eastern League home run record, and me being excited about him, and then Micro said "can't get around on a good fastball" and I thought wow, really? That's why I still think scouting is more important than all the analytical methods that the Tigers are alleged to be weak at. I think that they are weak at good old-fashioned scouting. 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:31 PM, pyrotigers said: Sure, and if we had a 23 year old with a. 850 ops and 30 dongs in a pitcher friendly AA right now everyone would be calling them a top prospect, not like those bums from the past Expand TBF, we do have a couple of guys who have put up some pretty nice MiLB numbers at least recently. If they don't flame out after 100-150 AB maybe one or two of them may be better hitters than Stewart was. That's the best we can hope for now. But heck, even if we assume Tork and Greene are both going to be + MLB hitters (and that is still an open question) you look at the rest of the bats on the team and after Javy - who even if he has disappointed is a reasonable bat for a SS - and you have basically nothing. So assuming you need at least 6 decent hitters in a lineup to score runs, we are still at least 3 short. If in the next year we need to count on an MLB breakout by at least three out of say - Kreidler, Couch, Rogers, Perez, Carpenter - that's asking an awful lot. Quote
1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... Quote
Edman85 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:49 PM, Jim Cowan said: I remember Stewart being on his way to challenging the Eastern League home run record, and me being excited about him, and then Micro said "can't get around on a good fastball" and I thought wow, really? That's why I still think scouting is more important than all the analytical methods that the Tigers are alleged to be weak at. I think that they are weak at good old-fashioned scouting. Expand Analytics is more than looking up their BR page. The analysts knew the same thing the scouts knew. Likely had bat path data that confirmed. Quote
Jim Cowan Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:55 PM, Edman85 said: Analytics is more than looking up their BR page. The analysts knew the same thing the scouts knew. Likely had bat path data that confirmed. Expand Did Micro have bat path data? Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) On 8/9/2022 at 4:55 PM, Edman85 said: Analytics is more than looking up their BR page. The analysts knew the same thing the scouts knew. Likely had bat path data that confirmed. Expand of course you can have a perfect bat path and still be too late with it.... Edited August 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 5:01 PM, gehringer_2 said: of course you can have a perfect bat path and still be too late with it.... Expand The story of my life.... 1 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:53 PM, 1984Echoes said: Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... Expand next year just meaning at least next year as nobody other than Kreilder even has 200 AB at AAA in support of their potential ceilings. So maybe just say 'in the semi-immediate out years' Quote
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:53 PM, 1984Echoes said: Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... Expand When is it the winning going to happen? This franchise has been awful at the MLB level since 2017. Where are the riches of the revamped scouting and drafting and developing? Or do we need to wait another 7 years for a sustained top half farm system? Quote
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 3:28 PM, 1776 said: I respect your perspective on this but I believe the issue isn’t as much about patience as it is about competence. There has been ample time and ample opportunity to turn this fiasco around and it hasn’t happened. Until major changes are made I’m not expecting a different outcome. Expand The resume just doesn't add up to having more patience. It's foolish to think otherwise. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) On 8/9/2022 at 4:53 PM, 1984Echoes said: Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... Expand They have been terrible for six years supposedly with the intention of re-building. 12 out of 30 teams make the playoffs and they play in in medium market division. It is reasonable for fans fans to expect a contender by now. Edited August 9, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote
buddha Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:45 PM, 1984Echoes said: Well... We'll see about that... One way or another... Expand Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) On 8/9/2022 at 4:57 PM, Jim Cowan said: Did Micro have bat path data? Expand It's highly proprietary, so that is unlikely. He may know people that do have access to it and get their opinions along with his own observations. Edited August 9, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote
microline133 Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 5:42 PM, Tiger337 said: It's highly proprietary, so that is unlikely. He may know people that do have access to it and get their opinions along with his own observations. Expand I did not have any advanced data at the time I made that call on Stewart. My projection was based on watching five games in six days and seeing 20+ plate appearances in that span. 2 Quote
chasfh Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 On 8/9/2022 at 4:49 PM, Jim Cowan said: I remember Stewart being on his way to challenging the Eastern League home run record, and me being excited about him, and then Micro said "can't get around on a good fastball" and I thought wow, really? That's why I still think scouting is more important than all the analytical methods that the Tigers are alleged to be weak at. I think that they are weak at good old-fashioned scouting. Expand When Stewart jacked 30 bombs at Erie in 2016, the Tigers didn’t have any analytics to speak of, something that could have diagnosed problems not visible to their naked eye, so their good old-fashioned scouting sucked eggs. Quote
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