1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 And if everyone is sick of patience, or has none left, then... Too fucking bad. Not to be rude but... the only way the team structure changes is if Avila makes changes or if Ilitch decides to make a change to the "man at the top (AA)". Otherwise.... So you're sort of stuck. You have no choice but to live with this team as is, and with all these rookies coming up, until Ilitch says different. One can always just walk away if you've had enough with patience. But I've seen enough to know to stick with this team. Maybe I'm influenced by my teenage years when Whitaker/ Trammell/ Morris/ Rozema/ Petry/ Parrish/ Gibson/ Kemp/ Jason Thompson/ and others all came up at the same time and that may be clouding my vision... But I don't think so. Worst news: Those guys all came up essentially from 1977-1979... And I had to WAIT FIVE YEARS MORE before they won a championship in 1984. I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Cumulative records since the beginning of the 2017 season and that winning percentage extrapolated to a 162 game season: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I’ve seen several comments here and elsewhere that weigh the possibility of Hinch moving into the GM position here if Avila vacates the position. I’m on record as opposing anything like that. I agree with any and everybody that contends we need to go outside this organization. I don’t believe Hinch has the experience or background to sit in the GM’s position. Frankly, I doubt he’d want the job anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. I respect your perspective on this but I believe the issue isn’t as much about patience as it is about competence. There has been ample time and ample opportunity to turn this fiasco around and it hasn’t happened. Until major changes are made I’m not expecting a different outcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: And if everyone is sick of patience, or has none left, then... Too fucking bad. Not to be rude but... the only way the team structure changes is if Avila makes changes or if Ilitch decides to make a change to the "man at the top (AA)". Otherwise.... So you're sort of stuck. You have no choice but to live with this team as is, and with all these rookies coming up, until Ilitch says different. One can always just walk away if you've had enough with patience. But I've seen enough to know to stick with this team. Maybe I'm influenced by my teenage years when Whitaker/ Trammell/ Morris/ Rozema/ Petry/ Parrish/ Gibson/ Kemp/ Jason Thompson/ and others all came up at the same time and that may be clouding my vision... But I don't think so. Worst news: Those guys all came up essentially from 1977-1979... And I had to WAIT FIVE YEARS MORE before they won a championship in 1984. I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. I remember patience from 1989 to 2005. It's more fun to bitch and moan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 As of this weekend, Verlander and Scherzer were tied at 3,140 strikeouts apiece in the their MLB careers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrotigers Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: that's a bit revisionist. Stewart's best BA at AAA was 260, so having him come up and not be able to break 220 shouldn't have been a big surprise. He hit for good power in the minors, but was never the kind of hitter in the minors that would make you think he would be a good hitter in the majors - you could only hope at best he would be a Rob Deer type, low OBP, maybe good power, but he wasn't even that. Sure, and if we had a 23 year old with a. 850 ops and 30 dongs in a pitcher friendly AA right now everyone would be calling them a top prospect, not like those bums from the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrotigers Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: And if everyone is sick of patience, or has none left, then... Too fucking bad. Not to be rude but... the only way the team structure changes is if Avila makes changes or if Ilitch decides to make a change to the "man at the top (AA)". Otherwise.... So you're sort of stuck. You have no choice but to live with this team as is, and with all these rookies coming up, until Ilitch says different. One can always just walk away if you've had enough with patience. But I've seen enough to know to stick with this team. Maybe I'm influenced by my teenage years when Whitaker/ Trammell/ Morris/ Rozema/ Petry/ Parrish/ Gibson/ Kemp/ Jason Thompson/ and others all came up at the same time and that may be clouding my vision... But I don't think so. Worst news: Those guys all came up essentially from 1977-1979... And I had to WAIT FIVE YEARS MORE before they won a championship in 1984. I've learned something with that experience... it's called patience. Cool, I've learned that being patient with morons is how things like your avatar happen, so I'd rather pull the plug now rather than wait and see the Tigers go 30-132 in five years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: I remember patience from 1989 to 2005. It's more fun to bitch and moan. HAH!!! Of course...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, pyrotigers said: Cool, I've learned that being patient with morons is how things like your avatar happen, so I'd rather pull the plug now rather than wait and see the Tigers go 30-132 in five years Well... We'll see about that... One way or another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 I remember Stewart being on his way to challenging the Eastern League home run record, and me being excited about him, and then Micro said "can't get around on a good fastball" and I thought wow, really? That's why I still think scouting is more important than all the analytical methods that the Tigers are alleged to be weak at. I think that they are weak at good old-fashioned scouting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, pyrotigers said: Sure, and if we had a 23 year old with a. 850 ops and 30 dongs in a pitcher friendly AA right now everyone would be calling them a top prospect, not like those bums from the past TBF, we do have a couple of guys who have put up some pretty nice MiLB numbers at least recently. If they don't flame out after 100-150 AB maybe one or two of them may be better hitters than Stewart was. That's the best we can hope for now. But heck, even if we assume Tork and Greene are both going to be + MLB hitters (and that is still an open question) you look at the rest of the bats on the team and after Javy - who even if he has disappointed is a reasonable bat for a SS - and you have basically nothing. So assuming you need at least 6 decent hitters in a lineup to score runs, we are still at least 3 short. If in the next year we need to count on an MLB breakout by at least three out of say - Kreidler, Couch, Rogers, Perez, Carpenter - that's asking an awful lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I remember Stewart being on his way to challenging the Eastern League home run record, and me being excited about him, and then Micro said "can't get around on a good fastball" and I thought wow, really? That's why I still think scouting is more important than all the analytical methods that the Tigers are alleged to be weak at. I think that they are weak at good old-fashioned scouting. Analytics is more than looking up their BR page. The analysts knew the same thing the scouts knew. Likely had bat path data that confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Edman85 said: Analytics is more than looking up their BR page. The analysts knew the same thing the scouts knew. Likely had bat path data that confirmed. Did Micro have bat path data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Analytics is more than looking up their BR page. The analysts knew the same thing the scouts knew. Likely had bat path data that confirmed. of course you can have a perfect bat path and still be too late with it.... Edited August 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: of course you can have a perfect bat path and still be too late with it.... The story of my life.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... next year just meaning at least next year as nobody other than Kreilder even has 200 AB at AAA in support of their potential ceilings. So maybe just say 'in the semi-immediate out years' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... When is it the winning going to happen? This franchise has been awful at the MLB level since 2017. Where are the riches of the revamped scouting and drafting and developing? Or do we need to wait another 7 years for a sustained top half farm system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, 1776 said: I respect your perspective on this but I believe the issue isn’t as much about patience as it is about competence. There has been ample time and ample opportunity to turn this fiasco around and it hasn’t happened. Until major changes are made I’m not expecting a different outcome. The resume just doesn't add up to having more patience. It's foolish to think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Why do we need to count on those guys "next year"? Were we planning on making the playoffs next year and therefore those guys "must" be counted on? Just asking for your thinking on that... They have been terrible for six years supposedly with the intention of re-building. 12 out of 30 teams make the playoffs and they play in in medium market division. It is reasonable for fans fans to expect a contender by now. Edited August 9, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Well... We'll see about that... One way or another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Did Micro have bat path data? It's highly proprietary, so that is unlikely. He may know people that do have access to it and get their opinions along with his own observations. Edited August 9, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microline133 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: It's highly proprietary, so that is unlikely. He may know people that do have access to it and get their opinions along with his own observations. I did not have any advanced data at the time I made that call on Stewart. My projection was based on watching five games in six days and seeing 20+ plate appearances in that span. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: I remember Stewart being on his way to challenging the Eastern League home run record, and me being excited about him, and then Micro said "can't get around on a good fastball" and I thought wow, really? That's why I still think scouting is more important than all the analytical methods that the Tigers are alleged to be weak at. I think that they are weak at good old-fashioned scouting. When Stewart jacked 30 bombs at Erie in 2016, the Tigers didn’t have any analytics to speak of, something that could have diagnosed problems not visible to their naked eye, so their good old-fashioned scouting sucked eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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