Tiger337 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: So tomorrow: Al Avila to Sr. Pres of Ops.; AJ Hinch to GM; Don Kelly in as manager. Is everyone happy? Does it affect anyone on the current team's slump? I think it would affect nothing short-term. The team is probably going to come out of their slump soon regardless, so the new management would probably get credit it for it without really being responsible. Any real effect probably wouldn't come until the trade deadline or off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) To quote Walter Sobchak, "Our ****in' troubles are over, Dude" Edited May 13, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: To quote Walter Sobchak, "Our ****in' troubles are over, Dude" *looks up his numbers* Can he hit a baseball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 I was going to make the old joke about "hard throwing lefty with command problems", but when I looked him up I saw the term "pitchability lefty". I think that's term for a prospect who is not established enough to be a "crafty lefty". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: LOL - pretty selective logic given another 'idiot' like Mike Ilitch let Yzerman walk when he was ready for Kenny's job. well come on. yzerman left as an unaccomplished guy with a lot of talent while holland was still seen as good. by the time mike died yzerman had built the lightning into a juggernaut who would go on to win back to back championships. give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think it would affect nothing short-term. The team is probably going to come out of their slump soon regardless, so the new management would probably get credit it for it without really being responsible. Any real effect probably wouldn't come until the trade deadline or off-season. Exactly. Before the season started we were all upbeat because they had upgraded in the OF, the IF, C and staring rotation. Not a bad off-season right? Then all kinds of weird shit goes down with injuries and slumps and everything logic said was green in March clearly must have been purple in retrospect. You might as well just go with the theory that the team is cursed, it makes as much sense as any other explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, buddha said: well come on. yzerman left as an unaccomplished guy with a lot of talent while holland was still seen as good. by the time mike died yzerman had built the lightning into a juggernaut who would go on to win back to back championships. give me a break. Where were you? Lots of people thought they would have been better to keep Yzerman and let Kenny go then if Kenny wouldn't make room for him, and he wouldn't. Yzerman was universally acknowledged as *the* up and coming management prospect that no team could afford to lose. If a management who had Yzerman didn't recognize what they had, how would they ever recognize that in some guy on the outside you want to hire? Edited May 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: Where were you? Lots of people thought they would have been better to keep Yzerman and let Kenny go then. Yzerman was universally acknowledged as *the* up and coming management prospect. If a management who had Yzerman didn't recognize what they had, how would they ever recognize that in some guy on the outside you want to hire? look YOURE the one who wants to give chris credit for bringing back yzerman, not me! that fell into his lap. youre not doing anything to support your argument that chris somehow knows what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 To further expand on how much credit to give Ilitch.... would he have hired Yzerman if he wasn't Steve Yzerman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, buddha said: look YOURE the one who wants to give chris credit for bringing back yzerman, not me! that fell into his lap. youre not doing anything to support your argument that chris somehow knows what he's doing. No, the premise was that C Ilitch won't fire a long time employee. Prima Facie evidence: he did. You are trying to minimize that by claiming it was an easy hire, well it's always an easy hire when you think the guy you've identified is better, Chris's old man failed to do that because HE - not Chris- was too loyal to Kenny. Not to mention that if you don't think some crazy level of collusion between Chris Ilitch and Steve Yzerman was involved in the rather odd way he parted company with Tampa (that Tampa and the NHL realized was pointless even worry about) I have some nice swampland you might like to see. Edited May 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: No, the premise was that C Ilitch won't fire a long time employee. Prima Facie evidence: he did. You are trying to minimize that by claiming it was an easy hire, well it's always an easy hire when you think the guy you've identified is better, Chris's old man failed to do that because HE - not Chris- was too loyal to Kenny. Not to mention that if you don't think some crazy level of collusion between Chris Ilitch and Steve Yzerman was involved in the rather odd way he parted company with Tampa (that Tampa and the NHL realized was pointless even worry about) I have some nice swampland you might like to see. well if alan trammell goes on to be an amazingly successful gm and puts in place a team that wins back to back world series titles, maybe we'll have a good analogy to the current situation? instead, we have a guy chris knew who was promoted who has never had any success at his job who has been there forever and no obvious heir apparent/friend of the family waiting in the wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, buddha said: well if alan trammell goes on to be an amazingly successful gm and puts in place a team that wins back to back world series titles, maybe we'll have a good analogy to the current situation? instead, we have a guy chris knew who was promoted who has never had any success at his job who has been there forever and no obvious heir apparent/friend of the family waiting in the wings. AJ Hinch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 45 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I was going to make the old joke about "hard throwing lefty with command problems", but when I looked him up I saw the term "pitchability lefty". I think that's term for a prospect who is not established enough to be a "crafty lefty". Slow right-handers are crafty. Slow left-handers are wily. They are wily portsiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 I didn't see anything wrong with promoting Avila at the time, this wasn't promoting Mayhew after being 2nd in command to Millen, this was promoting the guy who was 2nd in command to 10 years of winning. In their eyes they probably thought he could've learned all the strong points about Dombrowski while being more receptive to some of their philosophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, buddha said: well if alan trammell goes on to be an amazingly successful gm and puts in place a team that wins back to back world series titles, maybe we'll have a good analogy to the current situation? instead, we have a guy chris knew who was promoted who has never had any success at his job who has been there forever and no obvious heir apparent/friend of the family waiting in the wings. your reaching with Trammell.. No-one ever thought of Trammell as management potential the way they did Yzerman. What had Trammell done analogous to all the FO relevant work Yzerman had done (team Canada management etc, etc). Trammell's focus was/always has been individual coaching. He was a fish out of water as a manager and a lot of people predicted he didn't have the temperament for it. Even at the time people said that his hire in Det was exactly to be the sacrificial lamb for a bad team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) Regarding Torkelson, just noticed this browsing around, his numbers through this point in his career aren't far off of Aaron Judge's in 2016: Tork: Judge: Who knows, maybe he'll still work out. Edited May 13, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: your reaching with Trammell.. No-one ever thought of Trammell as management potential the way they did Yzerman. What had Trammell done analogous to all the FO relevant work Yzerman had done (team Canada management etc, etc). Trammell's focus was/always has been individual coaching. He was a fish out of water as a manager and a lot of people predicted he didn't have the temperament for it. Even at the time people said that his hire in Det was exactly to be the sacrificial lamb for a bad team. but that's the point. there is no one comparable to yzerman. bottom line: he gets no credit for getting yzerman cause that was a no brainer. heck, even al avila couldnt fuck that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 There are a lot of comments here that Clemens should be brought up. I agree he should get a look but he's not alone though. Ryan Lavarnway has been on fire in Toledo. With Haase struggling on offense and defense, he could swap places with Lavernway. He's in his mid 30's so not a young guy, but could be another one season wonder like Haase was last year. As bad as they are playing it wouldn't hurt to get a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Archie said: There are a lot of comments here that Clemens should be brought up. I agree he should get a look but he's not alone though. Ryan Lavarnway has been on fire in Toledo. With Haase struggling on offense and defense, he could swap places with Lavernway. He's in his mid 30's so not a young guy, but could be another one season wonder like Haase was last year. As bad as they are playing it wouldn't hurt to get a look. Lavarnway == Garneau. they loved Garneau last season and this Spring. Not so much Lavarnway. Is there logic here? Beats me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Lavarnway == Garneau. they loved Garneau last season and this Spring. Not so much Lavarnway. Is there logic here? Beats me. Its all about what you can do for me now and Haase isn't doing anything for us. Who knows what the logic is but at least Hinch hasn't played Haase in LF lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Archie said: Its all about what you can do for me now and Haase isn't doing anything for us. Who knows what the logic is but at least Hinch hasn't played Haase in LF lately. The whole premise of Eric Haase is built around the bat. The defense at catcher is flawed compared to Barnhart and the other catching options, left field he's underwhelming, etc. So if he's not hitting and doesn't recapture the magic, there's nothing else really justifying him being here. I do think they would be concerned with him being claimed by another org, which he likely would be with his #'s last year. Otherwise they would have cut him at roster reduction and kept Garneau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, buddha said: but that's the point. there is no one comparable to yzerman. But so incomparable that Mike let him walk because of his loyalty to Holland. My point is we are talking about two different people here. Everyone is trying to hang this 'loyalty' meme on C. Ilitch when he has fired one of the two people he inherited and let the other that did stay pretty much clean house completely through all the levels of the org below below his own. To be objective, that doesn't really sound like an owner that suffers much for letting people go. You can turn it around and say that Chris has dumped virtually everyone he inherited in the two sports orgs from Mike except Avila and Heather Nabozny. I mean, how loyal can you be when you even can Sobotka! Edited May 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Daz Cameron is getting every opportunity to get his career back on track, batting 3rd every night. His OPS is .581 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 41 minutes ago, mtutiger said: the most I can hope for in my most optimistic moments it that Victor and Clemens are being held at Toledo so they can be absolutely sure before they DFA Willi and/or Harold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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