2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[TigerNation]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Literally every reliever brought into the game gave up a baserunner. What reliever, who couldn't get outs, should Leyland have stuck with? I guess you could make the case for Smyly since he only walked the only batter he faced. I suppose you could have made the case for sticking with Scherzer until he blew out his arm or finished the game.

What are the odds Smyly gives up four runs if he pitches the inning? Just stupid to have a bunch of guys come in to pitch with a four run lead. Just have Smyly pitch the inning and you'll get to the 9th with the lead.

[buddha]

13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Literally every reliever brought into the game gave up a baserunner. What reliever, who couldn't get outs, should Leyland have stuck with? I guess you could make the case for Smyly since he only walked the only batter he faced. I suppose you could have made the case for sticking with Scherzer until he blew out his arm or finished the game. 

veras got one out and then gave up a hit.  yanks him.

smyly throws to one batter.  walks him on a bullshit call.  yanks him.

albuquerque gets a strikeout and then gives up a single.  yanks him to let their fly ball pitcher throw to ortiz.

you could have left veras in.  you could have left smyly in (like you said yourself), especially with the specter of left handed ortiz coming up.  

you could have left AlAl in.  

or, you could have wasted four pitchers in order to get to a terrible matchup.  and then had nowhere else to turn except rick porcello after that.

it was an exercise in overmanagement and it cost them the game.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

veras got one out and then gave up a hit.  yanks him.

smyly throws to one batter.  walks him on a bullshit call.  yanks him.

albuquerque gets a strikeout and then gives up a single.  yanks him to let their fly ball pitcher throw to ortiz.

you could have left veras in.  you could have left smyly in (like you said yourself), especially with the specter of left handed ortiz coming up.  

you could have left AlAl in.  

or, you could have wasted four pitchers in order to get to a terrible matchup.  and then had nowhere else to turn except rick porcello after that.

it was an exercise in overmanagement and it cost them the game.

The terrible matchup was their best reliever with a four run lead who up until that point never gave up a HR to Ortiz . Benoit had the same groundball rate as Smyly did that year all though Benoit was a little more susceptible to the HR than Smyly but his HR/FB ratio was still pretty decent that year. 

[buddha]

11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The terrible matchup was their best reliever with a four run lead who up until that point never gave up a HR to Ortiz . Benoit had the same groundball rate as Smyly did that year all though Benoit was a little more susceptible to the HR than Smyly but his HR/FB ratio was still pretty decent that year. 

you wasted your entire bullpen to get there and had no one left to throw except phil coke.  you backed yourself unnecessarily into a corner.

there was no reason to take veras out.  there was no reason to use smyly on only one batter (especially since smyly can go longer and can throw to ortiz down the road if necessary).  

you can have the last word since were just repeating ourselves.

[RandyMarsh]

Not sure if it's been mentioned or not but Heyman reported that Rodriguez is on the restricted list due to marital issues. The wife is probably pissed at him that due to his suckiness to start the year they may be stuck in this organization for the whole contract. 

On a serious note I hope he gets everything worked out and I suppose from our standpoint this is probably better than if it was a substance abuse issue like some people thought it could have been. 

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

you wasted your entire bullpen to get there and had no one left to throw except phil coke.  you backed yourself unnecessarily into a corner.

there was no reason to take veras out.  there was no reason to use smyly on only one batter (especially since smyly can go longer and can throw to ortiz down the road if necessary).  

you can have the last word since were just repeating ourselves.

Refreshing myself on the bullpen, only Phil Coke had a better flyball percentage than Benoit that year (of course if you exclude Porcello). Benoit had never given up a HR to Ortiz, and was the Tigers best reliever. It was a fine matchup, however, I would have went with Phil Coke. His only role in life was to pitch to David Ortiz. Anyways, Veras threw 3 pitches and gave up a 2B. He had been pretty bad with the Tigers up until that point. They weren't really backed into a corner. You are asking your best reliever and closer to get you a 4 out save. Benoit was pitching the 9th no matter what. He literally just needed to not give up a HR. 

I will take the last word. Nice chatting with you. 

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, oblong said:

What about 1972?  🙂

 

 

Tigers were an old team and the A's had way too much pitching in 72. Rookie Vida Blue just starting to hit stride. Campaneris was a jerk and didn't deserve to win anything, but aside from that it was hard not to admit the better team won.

Edited June 14, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tigers were an old team and the A's had way too much pitching in 72. Rookie Vida Blue just starting to hit stride. Campaneris was a jerk and didn't deserve to win anything, but aside from that it was hard not to admit the better team won.

The Tigers were lucky just to make the playoffs that year.  Nobody took them seriously as a team that could beat the Athletics.  Anybody can win a short series though and the Tigers almost did.  It's funny.  I remember that year for the player's strike more than anything else.  I was nine years old and I couldn't figure out why anyone would go on strike from baseball!  It was a bit of loss of innocence.   

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tigers were an old team and the A's had way too much pitching in 72. Rookie Vida Blue just starting to hit stride. Campaneris was a jerk and didn't deserve to win anything, but aside from that it was hard not to admit the better team won.

Thinking about those 1960s-1970s Tiger teams, maybe a couple of months ago, and how long so many of those guys stayed together with the franchise, I wondered how unique that situation was in history, so many guys playing on the same team for so many years.

So I put together a spreadsheet of the teams in history who had the most players who were together on their team for a lot of years.

The 1972 Tigers had nine guys on the team who had been together for nine entire seasons. The nine guys were: Kaline (on the team since 1953); Cash (1960); McAuliffe (1960); Gates Brown (1963); Freehan (1963); Horton (1963); Lolich (1963); Northrup (1964); and Stanley (1964). That is an incredible run of roster stability for a single franchise.

That is tied for the most in history, tied with ... well, the 1973 Tigers. Same nine guys, only now on the team for 10 entire seasons together.

The next most guys together nine years on the same team is seven, shared by the 1974 Tigers (McAuliffe went to Boston before the season and Northrup was traded midway through), along with the 1942 Yankees, 1956 Dodgers, 1971 Tigers (surprise!), 1980 Dodgers, 1984 Orioles, 1984 Royals, and 1985 Orioles.

Those '73 Tigers had the most guys together for 10 entire seasons, of course, but they also had the most guys together for 11 entire seasons (along with the '74 squad).

The '74 Tigers had six guys together for 12 entire seasons, which is the most; the 1975 Tigers had five.

The 1975 Tigers is the only team in history to have as many as four guys on the team together for 13 whole seasons.

Eleven different teams had three guys together for 14 whole seasons, of which the 1973 and 1990 Tigers are two.

The team that had the same three guys for the most entire seasons was the 2011 Yankees: Jeter, Posada, and Rivera played together for 16 years.

And the most entire seasons two guys played on the same squad together was 19. One was the 2013 Yankees (Jeter and Rivera).

The other team? The 1995 Tigers. Guess who. 😁

 

 

 

[chasfh]

One more thing about roster stability:

The current team with the greatest roster stability (as it were) is the Twins, who have five guys on the team right now who are in their eighth season together with that franchise. The five guys are: Jorge Polanco in his ninth year; and Max Kepler, Miguel Sano, Tyley Duffey, and Byron Buxton, all in their eighth.

I would never have recalled in an unaided way that some of those guys have been with that team for eight years now!

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

One more thing about roster stability:

The current team with the greatest roster stability (as it were) is the Twins, who have five guys on the team right now who are in their eighth season together with that franchise. The five guys are: Jorge Polanco in his ninth year; and Max Kepler, Miguel Sano, Tyley Duffey, and Byron Buxton, all in their eighth.

I would never have recalled in an unaided way that some of those guys have been with that team for eight years now!

TBF, for Buxton it's more like 4 seasons really....🤔

Edited June 14, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

Al Avila joined this team as 2nd in command for player personnel in 2003,  he became GM in 2015.    So for 20 years he has been at or just next to the top and even before he was GM, he was in charge of scouting and his voice was the loudest in the room when it comes to drafting. 

 

I went back to the 2004 draft and looked at position players the Tigers have drafted that has made it to the majors.  (I am not counting DJ LeMahieu, who they drafted in the 41st round, didn't sign and then was drafted 2 years later in the 2nd round by the Cubs).  

This is 20 fucking years.   Are you ready for this? 

Outfielders
Brennan Boesch
Nick Castellanos
Tyler Collins
Andy Dirks
Daniel Fields
Jeff Frazier
Mike Gerber
Derek Hill
Matt Joyce
Cameron Maybin
Jake Robson
Cristin Stewart
Steve Susdorf
Clete Thomas
Casper Wells

Infielders
David Adams
Kody Clemens
Brian Dlugach
Jeff Larish
Scott Sizemore
Devin Travis
Danny Worth

Catchers
Alex Avila
Curt Casali
Grayson Greiner
Bryan Holaday
James McCann
Chris Robinson

So, for 20 years of being at the top and being largely responsible for the draft, your starting lineup/roster would be

c - Alex Avila
1b - Jeff Larish
2b - Devin Travis
SS - Dany Worth
3b - Scott Sizemore
rf - Nick Castellanos
cf - Cameron Maybin
lf - Matt Joyce
DH - James McCann

Bench
Cristin Stewart, Brennan Boesch, Brian Dlugach, Kody Clemens

Oh my GOD, how is he allowed to continue his job?    That's 20 years and the only respectable position players are Alex Avila, James McCann, Nick Castellanos, Devin Travis & Cameron Maybin.   That's it.      

It's so bad, it's just sooooo bad.  

So when you see that my call is to fire everyone,  I mean everyone.  AJ too.  Total clean sweep is needed.   

EVERYONE !

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Motor City Sonics

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

2:35 is good.

[Jim Cowan]

Jim Campbell said that his big regret was letting the '68 team get old.

We have often remarked on how wonderful 1976 was with a team that was so entertaining to watch in spite of its losing record, thanks to Fidrych, Leflore, and Staub.  Still on that team though, incredibly, were Freehan, Horton, and Stanley, 8 years after 1968.  To give Horton his due his OPS+ was 117, but only once since 1969 had he played more than 119 games.

To be fair to Campbell what was he going to do with Freehan and Horton, trade them or release them?  They were gods, and in Freehan's case he was still the best in the organization at his position (although Bruce Kimm caught Fidrych). Campbell did trade Horton the following year, but not before giving him a curtain call...on opening day in 1977 he started in left field for the first time in years, to thunderous applause.  After the game he was traded in order to open a spot for Steve Kemp.  Clearly Campbell had that deal already made in spring training, but he brought Willie back one more time, for Willie and the fans.  That was a big time class move by Campbell, who does not get credit for very many of those.

[Tigermojo]

Just looking for reasons to be hopeful:

Candelario, Baez, Schoop, Torkelson and Haase all have a BABIP between .215 to .235. Baddoo and Clemens are only in the one hundred range. Baddoo has been unlucky at AAA as well. There's definitely room for some hits to start falling in for this group.

The bad news is our other batters have not been unlucky but they have been mediocre. Reyes our "best" hitter? .400 BABIP. No way can he sustain that.

Hinch needs to stick with the guys who have the potential to be successful in the future. That's Baddoo, Green, Meadows, Candelario, Baez, Schoop and Torkelson.

[RandyMarsh]

15 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

On a similar note I just came across this tidbit.

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigermojo said:

Reyes our "best" hitter? .400 BABIP. No way can he sustain that.

yeah  - he's not likely to maintain a 36% LD rate, but that's OK as he is hitting 350. If his BABIP regresses to his career average (~330) he is still hitting 290. I'll take that with this lineup. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Archie]

This isn't really Tiger news but KC released Jacoby Jones.  He was striking out at over 40% of his ABs.  Every time Javy Baez comes to bat it reminds me of Jones and how lost both of them look at the plate.  There is very little hope of them getting on base let alone driving a run in.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/06/royals-release-jacoby-jones.html

 

 

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

Just looking for reasons to be hopeful:

Candelario, Baez, Schoop, Torkelson and Haase all have a BABIP between .215 to .235. Baddoo and Clemens are only in the one hundred range. Baddoo has been unlucky at AAA as well. There's definitely room for some hits to start falling in for this group.

Part of the reason Candelario, Baez, and TORK! are not getting batted balls to fall in is that they aren’t hitting the ball hard. Statcast has them all clustered around 25th percentile for hard hit percentage.

Schoop is truly the unlucky one: 61st hard hit percentile, still low BABIP. I saw this first-hand in Tampa on a screaming line out to short. The look on Schoop’s face …

Haase doesn’t have a Statcast percentile, but his 31.3% hard hit rate on Baseball Reference doesn’t pair up very well with the American League average of 39.5%, never mind his own 47.9% from last year.

[bobrob2004]

11 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

On a similar note I just came across this tidbit.

 

Roger Clemens had 0 home runs and a .261 OBP in his first 26 PA.  His son, Kody Clemens, has 0 home runs and a .160 OBP in his first 25 PA.  

[Archie]

31 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Roger Clemens had 0 home runs and a .261 OBP in his first 26 PA.  His son, Kody Clemens, has 0 home runs and a .160 OBP in his first 25 PA.  

It probably took him 20 years to get 26 PA since he pitched in the AL the first 20 years of his career.

[bobrob2004]

15 minutes ago, Archie said:

It probably took him 20 years to get 26 PA since he pitched in the AL the first 20 years of his career.

Pretty much. Inter-league didn't start until '96, so he was 33 when he got his first PA. 

[kdog]

At some point, Avila's tenure becomes untenable. I'll allow some forgiveness for injuries. But his player dev system has produced nothing substantial in the field. And it looks like they'll need at least a few more years to cycle out the older vets who haven't produced this year.

You'll need a nimble exec who can make some interesting baseball trades and find value to get more talent. Avila has had ample time to do anything aside from paint by numbers. I don't think he's capable of fixing his own mess.

The owner shows no credibility if he allows Al to level set the org after he's the one who put us here. He was given a clean slate and they have made very little progress.

[chasfh]

If they were to fire Hinch and keep Al, that would eliminate the last remaining shred of hope I have for the future of this organization.

I really doubt that would happen, but that does seen to be what a few folks here would like to see.