gehringer_2 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Well, there it is again, the friendly disagreement about Hinch's market value, in which some people think he could actually get another job if he were to quit this one. yeah - I'm more on the side that thinks Hinch is now pretty much trapped here until he straightens this team out. You don't want the first 60 games of the 2022 Tigers as the last thing on your resume. Sure, he'd find something, but his choices would be more limited than if he had left last winter. Having a team play historically bad under your watch just is not good marketing, there's no way to slice it differently. Edited June 17, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I don't think a team would specifically fire anybody for Hinch but with all the openings that come available I'm confident he could land a gig if he wanted to. There's been retreads with worse track records that got hired. Not to mention I think he could smooth talk his way through an interview and convince a team that he wasn't the problem here, that he started the winning culture in Houston which allowed them to carry it over at he left etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: yeah - I'm more on the side that thinks Hinch is now pretty much trapped here until he straightens this team out. You don't want the first 60 games of the 2022 Tigers as the last thing on your resume. Sure, he'd find something, but his choices would be more limited than if he had left last winter. Having a team play historically bad under your watch just is not good marketing, there's no way to slice it differently. 15 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I don't think a team would specifically fire anybody for Hinch but with all the openings that come available I'm confident he could land a gig if he wanted to. There's been retreads with worse track records that got hired. Not to mention I think he could smooth talk his way through an interview and convince a team that he wasn't the problem here, that he started the winning culture in Houston which allowed them to carry it over at he left etc. I fall somewhere in between these views. I do think that a lot of Tigers fans assume that nothing that has happened under his watch (except for the good parts) reflects on Hinch at all, but I do not believe that MLB Execs think this way. They will look a lot more holistically at his record than fans do. And while, yes, he has a World Series on his record, he also presided over the collapse of his coaching staff in Houston and has had this time with the Tigers. That stuff will matter as well. I dont think he is stuck here and would be fully capable of getting a job on the open market, but he's not gonna have pick of the litter nor do I think it's a guarantee at all that he even lands one in the upcoming offseason. The big reason being is the mantra "what have you done for me lately"? Since AJ left Houston, there have been a number of successful teams and coaching staffs who have smart minds... teams like the Dodgers, Giants, Mets, Rays, etc. from which to look for future managerial talent. Nobody will "give" him a job, he'll have to earn it and compete for it. He's capable, not a guarantee tho. I dont think it is necessarily in either side's best interest for this marriage to fall apart. I really want it to succeed. And AJ has been a good influence on this franchise imo; a lot of the positive developments on the player development side, he's got some influence in that. Al needs to go, but I would like to see that happen while keeping AJ around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Well, there it is again, the friendly disagreement about Hinch's market value, in which some people think he could actually get another job if he were to quit this one. I am not sure that he deserves to be in demand after his time here. I am of the opinion that too much credit is given to GM’s of struggling teams doing what is smart rather than getting obsessed over the shiny object that managed Houston to 4 playoffs and 2 World Series in 5 years. I also feel the same way about the cheating. Fans make a big deal but it’s old news to the rest of MLB and will have no impact on stopping him from getting other jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 32 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I am not sure that he deserves to be in demand after his time here. I am of the opinion that too much credit is given to GM’s of struggling teams doing what is smart rather than getting obsessed over the shiny object that managed Houston to 4 playoffs and 2 World Series in 5 years. I also feel the same way about the cheating. Fans make a big deal but it’s old news to the rest of MLB and will have no impact on stopping him from getting other jobs. I feel like he filled out a lineup card with Bregman, Altuve, Correa, Gurriel, Springer and Marwan G. And only won one World Series with that loaded team, much like Sparky here in the '80's. The cheating never bothered me but what is telling is the contempt that the players showed for him, by refusing to stop when he told them to. And after his teams' performance the past 2 years I think his agent should be putting out feelers to the top university programs, pick one, and become one of those legendary 30 year coaches. Because he'll never work in the majors again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Our buddy Lynn Henning calling for Al Avilia being fired in today’s paper is hopefully the beginning of the media onslaught. I don’t see Lynn calling for Avila’s ouster. That would be access suicide. I do see him excusing Al (“Avila in August will be seven years into a makeover that demanded at least seven years to assess”) and attaboy-ing him for the limited successes he’s thinks Al’s had (trading Justin Upton for Elvin Rodriguez) as well as giving him full credit for the relief pitching success without even including the word Fetter anywhere in the piece. I do see Lynn calling for the trade of Tarik Skubal, though … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don’t see Lynn calling for Avila’s ouster. That would be access suicide. I do see him excusing Al (“Avila in August will be seven years into a makeover that demanded at least seven years to assess”) and attaboy-ing him for the limited successes he’s thinks Al’s had (trading Justin Upton for Elvin Rodriguez) as well as giving him full credit for the relief pitching success without even including the word Fetter anywhere in the piece. I do see Lynn calling for the trade of Tarik Skubal, though … I laughed at that. You can be sure that if Skubal is traded that means Al has already been fired. I just don't see trading a cheap controlled top of the rotation starter as something Al Avila is ever even remotely tempted to do. Edited June 17, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I laughed at that. You can be sure that if Skubal is traded that means Al has already been fired. I just don't see trading a cheap controlled top of the rotation starter as something Al Avila is ever even remoted tempted to do. Trading Tarik Skubal would be insane and wildly desperate at this stage. There may come a time when it is necessary, especially if this franchise continues to flounder 3-4 years down the road, but he's controllable for far too long. It would be a massive middle finger to the fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: I fall somewhere in between these views. I do think that a lot of Tigers fans assume that nothing that has happened under his watch (except for the good parts) reflects on Hinch at all, but I do not believe that MLB Execs think this way. They will look a lot more holistically at his record than fans do. And while, yes, he has a World Series on his record, he also presided over the collapse of his coaching staff in Houston and has had this time with the Tigers. That stuff will matter as well. I dont think he is stuck here and would be fully capable of getting a job on the open market, but he's not gonna have pick of the litter nor do I think it's a guarantee at all that he even lands one in the upcoming offseason. The big reason being is the mantra "what have you done for me lately"? Since AJ left Houston, there have been a number of successful teams and coaching staffs who have smart minds... teams like the Dodgers, Giants, Mets, Rays, etc. from which to look for future managerial talent. Nobody will "give" him a job, he'll have to earn it and compete for it. He's capable, not a guarantee tho. I dont think it is necessarily in either side's best interest for this marriage to fall apart. I really want it to succeed. And AJ has been a good influence on this franchise imo; a lot of the positive developments on the player development side, he's got some influence in that. Al needs to go, but I would like to see that happen while keeping AJ around. First of all I don’t think AJ gets fired until after at least three years, unless the Tigers have no confidence in the plan they just upended their entire development system to implement. If he leaves on his own, he already has another job. If he gets let go, I don’t think he’s on the beach for than a year before he lands on his feet. Major league managing is a very tight, regenerative community, and ruggedly handsome middle-aged men still have an edge. Edited June 17, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Just now, chasfh said: First of all I don’t think AJ gets fired until after at least three years, unless the Tigers have confidence in the plan they just upended their entire development system to implement. If he leaves on his own, he already has another job. If he gets let go, I don’t think he’s on the beach for than a year before he lands on his feet. Major league managing is a very tight, regenerative community. who was the last last manager to work again as a manager after managing the tigers? Buddy Bell? (Trammell hasn't, Leyland retired, Gardenhire retired, Ausmus not rehired - must be someone I'm missing....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 Just now, gehringer_2 said: who was the last last manager to work again as a manager after managing the tigers? Buddy Bell? (Trammell hasn't, Leyland retired, Gardenhire retired, Ausmus not rehired - must be someone I'm missing....) Ausmus is your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: First of all I don’t think AJ gets fired until after at least three years, unless the Tigers have confidence in the plan they just upended their entire development system to implement. If he leaves on his own, he already has another job. I agree, but to your second point, he's not gonna "have another job" lined up before the end of his contract. Maybe they ultimately part ways in the end, but the big fear that Tiger fans always seem to express is that he's gonna opt out and go manage a contender. If that happens, I don't think that's happening until his contract expires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Dtrain72 said: They aren't going to fire AJ, but I guarantee if AL remains the GM for much longer/after the season, we wont have to worry about AJ getting fired; he'll be outta here on his own volition the day after the season ends. I think AJ quit last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, chasfh said: Ausmus is your answer. I thought Ausmus was in a FO, did someone put him behind the bench again? ....(checking WIKI... they have him as the A's bench close. I thought he was still in LA. Close but not managing) Edited June 17, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 48 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I feel like he filled out a lineup card with Bregman, Altuve, Correa, Gurriel, Springer and Marwan G. And only won one World Series with that loaded team, much like Sparky here in the '80's. The cheating never bothered me but what is telling is the contempt that the players showed for him, by refusing to stop when he told them to. And after his teams' performance the past 2 years I think his agent should be putting out feelers to the top university programs, pick one, and become one of those legendary 30 year coaches. Because he'll never work in the majors again. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: Ausmus is your answer. Yep, had a year with the Angels and the finished 72-90 after 2 years of 80-82 under Scioscia. Nobody wins with the Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: I thought Ausmus was in a FO, did someone put him behind the bench again? Ausmus is currently a bench coach under Mark Kotsay in Oakland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 AJ's reaction when Al comes into his office and says "I wanted to ask you about an extension" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I feel like he filled out a lineup card with Bregman, Altuve, Correa, Gurriel, Springer and Marwan G. And only won one World Series with that loaded team, much like Sparky here in the '80's. The cheating never bothered me but what is telling is the contempt that the players showed for him, by refusing to stop when he told them to. And after his teams' performance the past 2 years I think his agent should be putting out feelers to the top university programs, pick one, and become one of those legendary 30 year coaches. Because he'll never work in the majors again. I think this is overly harsh. But I will say the whole dynamic (bad GM, coach with previous success) reminds me a lot of the Millen/Mariucci era with the Lions. Mariucci was the more sympathetic of the two. But he wasn't perfect either, and he ended up on TV when it was all said and done. Edited June 17, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: AJ's reaction when Al comes into his office and says "I wanted to ask you about an extension" arent you the same guy who wanted to fire dan campbell after 2 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I thought Ausmus was in a FO, did someone put him behind the bench again? ....(checking WIKI... they have him as the A's bench close. I thought he was still in LA. Close but not managing) ausmus managed the angels in 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 leyland could get a job if he wanted it. i mean he's had as much success as a manager as...check notes...aj hinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 anthony rendon out for the season. as if the javy baez experience waant enough to sour everyone on spending big money for players' decline years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 45 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don’t see Lynn calling for Avila’s ouster. That would be access suicide. I do see him excusing Al (“Avila in August will be seven years into a makeover that demanded at least seven years to assess”) and attaboy-ing him for the limited successes he’s thinks Al’s had (trading Justin Upton for Elvin Rodriguez) as well as giving him full credit for the relief pitching success without even including the word Fetter anywhere in the piece. I do see Lynn calling for the trade of Tarik Skubal, though … It’s in his last sentence or so. A bit discreet but there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, buddha said: arent you the same guy who wanted to fire dan campbell after 2 games? yeah, probably. Al's had 7 years (20 years in player scouting and drafting). I think that's a fair sample size. AJ looked like he gave up last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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