2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Hart said:

Agree about the skyline.  I think it's one of the best in baseball.  Even with the parking garage that detracts from it a bit IMO. 

The conversation about the sun detracting from the stadium is definitely relevant.  I only go to one game a year but it is usually a day game and we always are careful about where we buy tickets.   

While I wouldn't say the Comerica skyline is the equal of the PNC Park skyline in Pittsburgh, or even the Truist Field skyline in Charlotte, I do think the DAC provides one of the premier distinctive looks to an outfield skyline of any ballpark.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I had to see this—now you do, too.

 

The guy was always a freak show, and I don't necessarily mean physically.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

26% CS this year, 35% CS in 2021. ~.990 fielding percentage. He seems solid behind the dish.

The big unknown with catchers is pitcher management which is really difficult to quantify.  How well does he work with pitchers especially youing pitchers?  The young Tigers pitchers have performed above expectations this year.  Fetter has gotten credit for that,  Does Barnhart deserve any credit?  I don't know.  

[kdog]

Quote

“I’m as angry as anybody, more angry than anybody,” general manager Al Avila said. “We’re all angry. And we’re all accountable — including the players. Right now, we’re re-evaluating and scrutinizing everything in the front office, player development, scouting, our staff and our players. When this happens, it’s not person or one department or one player. This is team-wide.”

Avila concluded by saying, “We’re all obviously working hard to turn this around. And we will.” Rival executives, however, question whether Avila is creative and savvy enough to build a consistent winner. Some in Detroit, meanwhile, wonder if Hinch might bolt, pointing to an April 2021 report that said his contract included an opt-out clause.

High-end pieces are in place. Resources are not a problem. But when PECOTA projected the Tigers for 67 wins and Fangraphs for 77 at the start of the season, it was a clear indication that the team, for all its high draft picks and free-agent signings, was still short on talent. And right now, with the Tigers on a 62-win pace, those projections seem optimistic.

Winning teams excel not only at evaluating players with other clubs, but also their own. The only reasonable conclusion to draw from the Tigers’ mess of a season is that they are failing on both fronts.

This is what the kids call an ethering. Rival execs laugh at us. Maybe the owner has an athletic sub.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The big unknown with catchers is pitcher management which is really difficult to quantify.  How well does he work with pitchers especially youing pitchers?  The young Tigers pitchers have performed above expectations this year.  Fetter has gotten credit for that,  Does Barnhart deserve any credit?  I don't know.  

I don't know if it's notable or not, but there have already been at least a couple of times when one of our young pitchers admitted they gave up a HR after shaking off Tucker.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

It'd be nice if some of these cash considerations could be used on picking up something useful

If you like that story, you'll love this:

Trayce Thompson was slashing .299/.352/.639 in Toledo, good for a .416 wOBA and 153 wRC+ with eight home runs and seven doubles in just 97 at bats.

We just sold him to the Dodgers for "cash considerations". Just like Lavarnway.

Anyone still think "the rebuild is over" and that we are trying to stockpile talent?

[mtutiger]

Another part of the Rosenthal piece, on the AJ angle: AJ, along with not having an opt-out, is under contract for longer than Al is.

Might be the only positive thing in that piece.... 

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Haase has had a good month - 800 OPS in June. It's not saying much but he is the closest thing to an MLB catcher we have in the system currently. 

Maybe Barnhart is still suffering league change, no way he should be as bad as he is.

"No way"? Really?

Edited June 22, 2022 by chasfh

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If you like that story, you'll love this:

Trayce Thompson was slashing .299/.352/.639 in Toledo, good for a .416 wOBA and 153 wRC+ with eight home runs and seven doubles in just 97 at bats.

We just sold him to the Dodgers for "cash considerations". Just like Lavarnway.

Anyone still think "the rebuild is over" and that we are trying to stockpile talent?

My understanding is that Trayce Thompson was about to opt out.... I didn't mind the trade.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

My understanding is that Trayce Thompson was about to opt out.... I didn't mind the trade.

It was a trade? Who did we get in trade?

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If you like that story, you'll love this:

Trayce Thompson was slashing .299/.352/.639 in Toledo, good for a .416 wOBA and 153 wRC+ with eight home runs and seven doubles in just 97 at bats.

We just sold him to the Dodgers for "cash considerations". Just like Lavarnway.

Anyone still think "the rebuild is over" and that we are trying to stockpile talent?

Thompson is 31 and had an opt out if he found a major league opportunity elsewhere.  

It is still funny that the Tigers had a hitter that the Dodgers actually wanted.  

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

It was a trade? Who did we get in trade?

Norm Cash

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

No way? Really?

yeah really. 160 pts is a big drop in OPS to just happen out of the blue.

So here's what I don't get with Tucker. Last season he only hit LH, and he had a zero platoon split. This season he is switch hitting but his LH numbers have gone down despite not facing LHP as a LHH, and he is hitting LHP as RHH worse than than he did last year as a LHH. Not to mention, that when he SH in 2019 he was also terrible as a RHB. 

So why haven't the Tigers talked him into dropping trying to hit RH?  If you are scuffling it's a lot easier to work on your problems from just one side. This is the same question I had with Goodrum. Is the Tiger FO so enamored of SH in theory that they ignore when it's not working in practice? Or can't Coolbaugh persuade any of his hitters to do the obvious to help themselves?

Edited June 22, 2022 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Thompson is 31 and had an opt out if he found a major league opportunity elsewhere.  

It is still funny that the Tigers had a hitter that the Dodgers actually wanted.  

I'm surprised they didn't give him more consideration when Grossman went down with his injury.... then again, they really needed Willi because reasons.

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah really. 160 pts is a big drop in OPS to just happen out of the blue.

So here's what I don't get with Tucker. Last season he only hit LH, and he had a zero platoon split. This season he is switch hitting but his LH numbers have gone down despite not facing LHP as a LHH, and he is hitting LHP as RHH worse than than he did last year as a LHH. Not to mention, that when he SH in 2019 he was also terrible as a RHB. 

So why haven't the Tigers talked him into dropping trying to hit RH?  If you are scuffling it's a lot easier to work on your problems from just one side. This is the same question I had with Goodrum. Is the Tiger FO so enamored of SH in theory that they ignore when it's not working in practice? Or can't Coolbaugh persuade any of his hitters to do the obvious to help themselves?

He was at age 31 already the one of the worst-hitting catchers in the game, and coming off successive 75 wRC+ seasons and moving into a stronger league? I don't think it's out of the blue. If anyone would have predicted to me that he would get off to a 50 wRC+ start after 50 games, I would've said yup, that sounds like it's within the range of outcomes. I would agree that it's at the low end of that range. But I would not agree that it's completely uncharacteristic and wholly unfathomable or unexplainable.

 

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'm surprised they didn't give him more consideration when Grossman went down with his injury.... then again, they really needed Willi because reasons.

Maybe all teams do, I don't know/have any sense of any other team's management of its prospects, but the Tigers seem to to be overly sensitive to FOMO, that they are going to prematurely cut bait on a prospect that will make it somewhere else. Maybe it's not the worst failing in the world but there is an opportunity cost to keeping guys like Mike Laga and Christin Stewart and Niko and Willi around so much longer than what appears to be their obvious sell date to anyone on the outside. And then again, maybe this stems from an org not really having any clear ideas what characterizes a player that is going to make it vs one that isn't. Again maybe nobody really does, but when it's your own team, there is a certain 'familiarity breeds contempt' effect.

Edited June 22, 2022 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

Don't know if this just came out or not but it was just posted by MLB Network's twitter so I'm guessing it is. One thing I like is that the higher seed not only gets home field advantage but gets to host all 3 games, I think that is atleast a pretty good incentive for a team to want to be a higher seed.

Some may argue about the bye and teams playing worse with it due to the long layoff but I still think that is too small of sample to determine one way or another, I mean how many cases has there really been to determine this? The fact is with the bye you need fewer games to win the World Series than if you didn't have it so that should be considered a good thing. 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Motor City Sonics]

With the departure of Thompson, does this make room for Kerry Carpenter at Toledo?  

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

In other words, Lynn Henning has caused about a season and a half of angst over something that isn't even reality.

Anybody have comment on this at all?

We've had countless debates about AJ opting out on this board, and it appears that it is literally all fiction.

It's not the most important part of Rosenthal's piece, but it feels underplayed a lot.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

With the departure of Thompson, does this make room for Kerry Carpenter at Toledo?  

June K rate has crept up a bit this week but still at a reasonable 23%. Walk rate still abysmal though.

[RatkoVarda]

11 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

With the departure of Thompson, does this make room for Kerry Carpenter at Toledo?  

allowing teams to see Carpenter multiple times thru the season, and see how he reacts to that, could be reason enough to leave him at AA all year; not sure AAA pitching is better than AA pitching this year

[RatkoVarda]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Anybody have comment on this at all?

We've had countless debates about AJ opting out on this board, and it appears that it is literally all fiction.

It's not the most important part of Rosenthal's piece, but it feels underplayed a lot.

i think this will get retconned to speculation that "AJ could have had ...."

[alex]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I'm surprised they didn't give him more consideration when Grossman went down with his injury.... then again, they really needed Willi because reasons.

I agree. I have no idea how TThompson will do from here on. I do know he was having a good year at AAA with power results. I get he is not 21 yrs old - but not every player has to be a 'young prospect' to make sense for a roster.

IMHO, sometimes you have to try a player(s) who has been producing. Thompson has MLB experience and some tools. Every team has players like this (rebuilding or contending). I find it quite interesting that the Dodgers sought him ought... I do know he did play with L.A. before as well.

You have to think the Tigs know they need another 1-2 'offensive' players as they evaluate. I wonder also if they see Greene as a CF fixture or do they move him to a corner? Then seek a CF and another bat. This is all part of the evaluation process as we will see how it all plays out.

Edited June 22, 2022 by alex

[romad1]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Don't know if this just came out or not but it was just posted by MLB Network's twitter so I'm guessing it is. One thing I like is that the higher seed not only gets home field advantage but gets to host all 3 games, I think that is atleast a pretty good incentive for a team to want to be a higher seed.

Some may argue about the bye and teams playing worse with it due to the long layoff but I still think that is too small of sample to determine one way or another, I mean how many cases has there really been to determine this? The fact is with the bye you need fewer games to win the World Series than if you didn't have it so that should be considered a good thing. 

 

I was reading too fast but I at first thought this said that in the first round, the division winner plays the LLWS winner.  It would make for quite a spectacle.   Get on that Rob Manfred.  And be sure to get the bookies and touts to fix the games so the kids have a chance. 

[buddha]

rosenthal on Avila.

"Avila concluded by saying, “We’re all obviously working hard to turn this around. And we will.” Rival executives, however, question whether Avila is creative and savvy enough to build a consistent winner....

But with Báez, the Tigers banked on a hitter notorious for his lack of plate discipline. With Rodríguez, they bet on a pitcher who never had led a rotation. And while hitters such as Jonathan Schoop, Jeimer Candelario and Robbie Grossman inexplicably have cratered, the Tigers also are haunted by past blunders.

Among them:

• Meager returns in trades for Justin Verlander, Nick Castellanos and J.D. Martinez, compounded by failures to move pitchers such as Michael Fulmer and Matthew Boyd when their values were highest.

• A drought of homegrown position players that predates Avila’s hiring as GM in Aug. 2015, but might be on the verge of ending with the arrivals of two top-five picks, first baseman Spencer Torkelson and center fielder Riley Greene.

• An international program that, while showing signs of improvement, has produced only one positive WAR player, closer Gregory Soto, since the trade of Willy Adames in 2014."

alright, which one of you has been talking to rosenthal?  chas?  

while he criticizes Al, he's actually too nice to him for my liking.  go for the juggular Kenny!