2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[Jason_R]

14 hours ago, sabretooth said:

Can you provide any example where an anodyne comment by an owner in Detroit was turned into such a headline?  I can't.  You're acting like this is the WH Press Corps and Ilitch is Richard Nixon or something.  

Yes, Ilitch's comments at this very press conference were turned into a headline in the Detroit Free Press. Have you heard of it?

"Detroit Tigers owner Christopher Ilitch 'very pleased with the progress' in 2022"

You must realize that Christopher Ilitch is rich and has been his whole life. Literally every time in his adult life that he has said something he has had to expect that it would be printed in the paper. Certainly he knows this about a press conference. And certainly he has a media consultant to prepare him for a press conference like this. And certainly they discussed the inevitable question about the Tigers, and certainly they chose to answer it this way. 

Of course there are a lot of fans who had the misguided belief that this team might contend this season, and some of them may have maintained that delusion after Riley Greene got injured in the pre-season. I don't know what fans like this expected once the whole staff got injured, then their new acquisition Meadows got dizzy. The wheels fell off the wagon. But they have had some young pitchers come up and perform well, and once Riley Greene arrived it is like a new team offensively.

Still, these fans are butt hurt that their fantasy of contending this season won't come true and they wanted Ilitch to use Lalonde's press conference to rub Avila's face in ****. Yeah, that would have been real classy. "Here you go Lalonde, this is what you're getting in for. I'm taking your moment in the spotlight to send a message to another one of my employees. And guess what? If you have a rough season I'm the kind of boss who would publicly embarrass you too."

I agree that Avila has stuck around far too long. But fans like this are living in a fantasy world. An owner who did the things fans like this want would turn the team from a sad sack into a legitimate laughing stock.

[mtutiger]

14 hours ago, sabretooth said:

....and as much as I want Avila gone, and as lopsidedly bad as the Paredes/Meadows trade has been to-date, it's ridiculous to me to suggest that anyone guessed or knew how this would shake out.

All of the preseason projection services had Paredes pegged for mediocre power (415 - 425 SLG and mid-100's ISO), not a 600 SLG and 25% HR/FB ratio.  He hasn't changed his launch angle or his FB approach as a hitter, so it's not obvious yet that Tampa's people unlocked something in his swing, though that's possible.  Maybe just maybe he's having a really hot stretch.

And c'mon, nobody could have predicted that Meadows would suffer the plagues of Job.  If someone can explain to me how Meadows various health problems are tied together and/or could have been predicted, that's one thing, but what has happened to him is just really, really bad luck.

I'll make a deal -- I'll agree that Avila should have known that this trade would not work out, if somehow that claim gets Avila fired -- otherwise I'm sticking to my guns on this.

IIRC, the scuttlebutt at the time of the trade was that, from the Rays' perspective, Meadows was coming at a higher cost in future years and that clearing him out would create room for Josh Lowe. (Who thus far hasn't performed well at all, but that's neither here nor there)

I do think that they liked Paredes, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten him in the trade. But along with all the conspiracies about how the Rays "knew" something was up with Meadows and they needed to dump him on an unsuspecting buyer, there is a lot of revisionist history about Paredes role in the trade. At the end of the day, he wasn't the straw that stirred the drink, so to speak.

[Tiger337]

16 hours ago, sabretooth said:

He's had a really bad 5 game stretch but do you honestly think that Skubal is broken?  He's had 5 game slumps before. 

He is likely not broken, but he doesn't have a long enough track record to know how good he is.  Is he an ace or his he Matt Boyd (who had similarly good stretch in 2019) ?  

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Yes, Ilitch's comments at this very press conference were turned into a headline in the Detroit Free Press. Have you heard of it?

"Detroit Tigers owner Christopher Ilitch 'very pleased with the progress' in 2022"

Obviously I was referring to the kind of "gotcha" headline you said would happen if he dared to make any kind of balanced observation about the team.  What is the point of reading or responding to the rest of your post if you are going to make a mockery of a respectful question.

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

IIRC, the scuttlebutt at the time of the trade was that, from the Rays' perspective, Meadows was coming at a higher cost in future years and that clearing him out would create room for Josh Lowe. (Who thus far hasn't performed well at all, but that's neither here nor there)

I do think that they liked Paredes, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten him in the trade. But along with all the conspiracies about how the Rays "knew" something was up with Meadows and they needed to dump him on an unsuspecting buyer, there is a lot of revisionist history about Paredes role in the trade. At the end of the day, he wasn't the straw that stirred the drink, so to speak.

I think this is the right "take" on the deal.  I don't think there was or is any "secret sauce" with Paredes or hidden problems with Meadows.  Paredes may be able to carry this jump-start forward, but I think after this current hot streak, Paredes will settle back to where he was (and still IS) projected to be, which is a decent to good on-base guy with some pop.

Meadows just needs Steve Austin bionics (not the wrestler, the TV character), not much to ask for.

And yeah, I grabbed Josh Lowe for my Fantasy Team and already dropped him...his stock as a prospect has gone from high to zero in just a couple of terrible months, especially for a 24-year old with a lot of minor league mileage and only one really "plus" year at AAA in 2021 to show for it.

[Shinzaki]

Haase is now OPS' ing above .700....it's a miracle!!

[Tiger337]

I wonder if he is still getting paid?  He couldn't be.  I'm not even sure Adduci could pull this off.  

 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I wonder if he is still getting paid?  He couldn't be.  I'm not even sure Adduci could pull this off.  

 

if they were sending him checks and they stop, then I bet they will hear from him.

[1776]

Al sure knows how to pick’em 🙄

[Shinzaki]

At this point...all you can do is hope the man's OK.

[Biff Mayhem]

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

if they were sending him checks and they stop, then I bet they will hear from him.

[Shinzaki]

[RandyMarsh]

Al: We went ahead and fixed the glitch

Chris: So Rodriguez has been let go?

Al: Just a second there professor, we "fixed the glitch" so he won't be getting a paycheck anymore so it'll just work it's self out naturally

Hinch: We always want to avoid confrontation when all possible, problem is solved on your end!

[sabretooth]

6 hours ago, Jason_R said:

You must realize that Christopher Ilitch is rich and has been his whole life. Literally every time in his adult life that he has said something he has had to expect that it would be printed in the paper. Certainly he knows this about a press conference. And certainly he has a media consultant to prepare him for a press conference like this. And certainly they discussed the inevitable question about the Tigers, and certainly they chose to answer it this way. 

You made the point that Chris shouldn't/couldn't say anything that might reflect even reasonable disappointment aobut the team's bad start because the headlines would twist it into "Ilitch slams Tigers!!". 

When I asked you for an example of where the Detroit media has twisted a sports owner's reasonable expression of disappointment into a "owner slams team!" headline, you presented the headline from the article, where Chris praised the progress of team, which you originally defended as an example of a job well done by Chris. 

Disapointing to see such a lack of self-awareness and contradictory statements from a self-proclaimed communications expert LOL  

6 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Of course there are a lot of fans who had the misguided belief that this team might contend this season, and some of them may have maintained that delusion after Riley Greene got injured in the pre-season. I don't know what fans like this expected once the whole staff got injured, then their new acquisition Meadows got dizzy. The wheels fell off the wagon. But they have had some young pitchers come up and perform well, and once Riley Greene arrived it is like a new team offensively.

Still, these fans are butt hurt that their fantasy of contending this season won't come true and they wanted Ilitch to use Lalonde's press conference to rub Avila's face in ****. Yeah, that would have been real classy. "Here you go Lalonde, this is what you're getting in for. I'm taking your moment in the spotlight to send a message to another one of my employees. And guess what? If you have a rough season I'm the kind of boss who would publicly embarrass you too."

I agree that Avila has stuck around far too long. But fans like this are living in a fantasy world. An owner who did the things fans like this want would turn the team from a sad sack into a legitimate laughing stock.

Hey I hear your strawman is buying a round of drinks at Elwood's, hurry on down.

[sabretooth]

4 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

He is likely not broken, but he doesn't have a long enough track record to know how good he is.  Is he an ace or his he Matt Boyd (who had similarly good stretch in 2019) ?  

Oh, I agree.  I think Skubal's good stretch elevated people's expectations of him, fairly or not, and those very high expectations are what is causing people to go ape-sheet over a string of bad starts.

He has never possessed elite stuff. 

All three pitches (4S, Slider, Change) have to be working way above his career norms in order for him to pitch well, which is above his projections and established performance level. 

It seems far more likely to me that he will be a Matt Boyd type, and there's nothing wrong that.

The fact that this team **needs** him to be better than Matt Boyd was is a function of how badly this team has performed at acquiring/drafting/developing talent.

[mtutiger]

40 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

You made the point that Chris shouldn't/couldn't say anything that might reflect even reasonable disappointment aobut the team's bad start because the headlines would twist it into "Ilitch slams Tigers!!". 

When I asked you for an example of where the Detroit media has twisted a sports owner's reasonable expression of disappointment into a "owner slams team!" headline, you presented the headline from the article, where Chris praised the progress of team, which you originally defended as an example of a job well done by Chris. 

Disapointing to see such a lack of self-awareness and contradictory statements from a self-proclaimed communications expert LOL  

IMO, it's really a case where, had Chris basically said that the results thus far were disappointing but we're working to correct it, it would have generated almost no news.

His response generated far more and, subsequently, was quite negative.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

if they were sending him checks and they stop, then I bet they will hear from him.

Checks?  Didn’t you see the movie about Billy Beane?  He invented direct deposit.

[LongLiveMaroth]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/detroits-jason-foley-is-sinking-his-way-to-the-top/ 

Interesting read on Jason Foley and how analytics played a huge part in his current arsenal.

[sabretooth]

36 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

IMO, it's really a case where, had Chris basically said that the results thus far were disappointing but we're working to correct it, it would have generated almost no news.

His response generated far more and, subsequently, was quite negative.

Yes, exactly.

And for the record, I have **no problem with Chris publicly expressing optimism for the future**, including the near future. 

Nobody **expected** this team to compete this year.  Everybody **hoped** that it **might** be possible.  

The Fangraphs Depth Charts projection system had them at 80 wins after they acquired Meadows and ERod and Chafin.  That's good enough to sniff the playoffs with some good luck and a good mid-season pickup or two.  The good luck turned to very very very bad luck and the above hopes have turned to dreams.  To hear the owner declare that the rebuild is on schedule at the moment the team was playing worse than they were in 2017, 2018, and 2019 was absurd and added insult to injury.  It was an unforced error, period.

All anybody here is saying is that when Chris opens his mouth about the team, it should **at least** not sound ridiculous and out of touch with reality.  He failed that test miserably in this case, and no amount of hypothesizing about how the Detroit media might spin/twist it if Chris said something more reasonable changes how stupid Chris sounded. 

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I wonder if he is still getting paid?  He couldn't be.  I'm not even sure Adduci could pull this off.  

 

I was wondering just a couple days ago, what are the chances the Tigers sue to void the contract? With Avila publicly pushing Rodriguez under the bus like this, seems like the chances might have increased some.

[Tigerbomb13]

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I was wondering just a couple days ago, what are the chances the Tigers sue to void the contract? With Avila publicly pushing Rodriguez under the bus like this, seems like the chances might have increased some.

This whole thing is bizarre. First thing, I hope he’s okay. Secondly, you’d think at the very least his agent would be able to relay some information to the team. I understand if he’s having mental health issues, but there has to be some type of communication between the agent and the team. So strange. 

[Tenacious D]

13 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

This whole thing is bizarre. First thing, I hope he’s okay. Secondly, you’d think at the very least his agent would be able to relay some information to the team. I understand if he’s having mental health issues, but there has to be some type of communication between the agent and the team. So strange. 

It’s definitely delicate, without knowing the specifics.  I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

[RandyMarsh]

I just don't understand how nobody from his party can reach out to the Tigers? Like if he's incarcerated, in rehab or God forbid gravely ill you think his agency or family would atleast keep in touch with his employer to let them know what is going on. For his sake he's lucky that he is with us and still not with the Red Sox, their fanbase and media would be doing whatever it took to get to the bottom of it. 

[chasfh]

6 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

It’s definitely delicate, without knowing the specifics.  I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

Not saying at all that he should no longer get that benefit, but how long do you think they have to do so?

[RandyMarsh]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Not saying at all that he should no longer get that benefit, but how long do you think they have to do so?

Unless the Tigers are lying about trying to contact him I just can't think of a rational explanation why nobody on his front has tried to reach out to the Tigers. Like where are his lawyers/agents at? You think they could atleast keep the Tigers up to date at the very least to let them know that he isn't dead or something.