2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[RandyMarsh]

Hopefully time away from Coolbaugh will help Tork get things straightened out. He has the complete opposite of the Midas touch when it comes to working with hitters and their approaches. Guys just perform worse the longer they are around him. 

[romad1]

Just now, RandyMarsh said:

Hopefully time away from Coolbaugh will help Tork get things straightened out. He has the complete opposite of the Midas touch when it comes to working with hitters and their approaches. Guys just perform worse the longer they are around him. 

Hopefully it is one isolated cause. 

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

You got your last wish, anyway.

 

 

Frickin'... FINALLY!!!

[kdog]

From Petzold:

This is where the complexity arrives. Significant changes — whether in-season or during the offseason — could be necessary for Torkelson to thrive at the highest level. His mechanics aren't allowing him to adjust and attack pitches he's supposed to crush. Torkelson too often ends up in a weak position when his front foot hits the ground, a product of inconsistent timing. He either whiffs or doesn't hit the ball hard enough, even when the pitch travels over the heart of the plate.

Torkelson, though, doesn't seem willing to budge, or at least he hasn't so far in his 83-game MLB career. After all, it wasn't too long ago scouts raved about his pure swing at the college level.

But this isn't college ball.

"It's more mindset than mechanics," Torkelson said May 18 in St. Petersburg. "My swing is my swing."
 

Are we sure that Tork is willing to make changes?

 

[casimir]

51 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Hopefully time away from Coolbaugh will help Tork get things straightened out. He has the complete opposite of the Midas touch when it comes to working with hitters and their approaches. Guys just perform worse the longer they are around him. 

What can we take away from Coolbaugh and the Tigers last season?  Haase and Baddoo came out of nowhere.  Grossman had a career kind of season.  Candelario was good. Cabrera is really too old to evaluate in this context.  Schoop was ok.  Rogers had success in a shortened stint.  Everybody else was garbage, for the most part, but there’s a bunch of nondescript hitters bundled up in there.  Maybe there’s nothing to take away.

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

What can we take away from Coolbaugh and the Tigers last season?  Haase and Baddoo came out of nowhere.  Grossman had a career kind of season.  Candelario was good. Cabrera is really too old to evaluate in this context.  Schoop was ok.  Rogers had success in a shortened stint.  Everybody else was garbage, for the most part, but there’s a bunch of nondescript hitters bundled up in there.  Maybe there’s nothing to take away.

I was half joking with the Coolbaugh comment cause I know that a hitting instructor can only have so much effect on a hitter's performance but I do think there is something to be said for Tigers hitters approaches whether it come from Coolbaugh or Hinch.

I don't think a player's approach at the plate is a one size fit all thing where every player should have the same one and mindset across the board, certain players may just need the "see ball hit ball" approach and I include Tork in that. If you're to believe the talking heads on TV it seems that the Tigers indeed are trying to make all the players have a similar approach and I think that can hurt certain guys and Tork seems to be one of them. 

[casimir]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

I was half joking with the Coolbaugh comment cause I know that a hitting instructor can only have so much effect on a hitter's performance but I do think there is something to be said for Tigers hitters approaches whether it come from Coolbaugh or Hinch.

I don't think a player's approach at the plate is a one size fit all thing where every player should have the same one and mindset across the board, certain players may just need the "see ball hit ball" approach and I include Tork in that. If you're to believe the talking heads on TV it seems that the Tigers indeed are trying to make all the players have a similar approach and I think that can hurt certain guys and Tork seems to be one of them. 

That’s understandable.  It just doesn’t seem this collection of “hitters” should be so absolutely awful.

[RandyMarsh]

11 minutes ago, casimir said:

That’s understandable.  It just doesn’t seem this collection of “hitters” should be so absolutely awful.

Yep that's how I feel. It takes alot for me to really pile on a hitting coach unlike some fans who seem to at the first sign of bad offense but when you got this many guys hitting way below career norms or expectations it can't all just be a coincidence or on the players. imo I feel there has to be some sorta reason why and the hitting coach and/or instruction the players are getting from the staff in general is the only common denominator. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[gehringer_2]

7 hours ago, kdog said:

From Petzold:

This is where the complexity arrives. Significant changes — whether in-season or during the offseason — could be necessary for Torkelson to thrive at the highest level. His mechanics aren't allowing him to adjust and attack pitches he's supposed to crush. Torkelson too often ends up in a weak position when his front foot hits the ground, a product of inconsistent timing. He either whiffs or doesn't hit the ball hard enough, even when the pitch travels over the heart of the plate.

Torkelson, though, doesn't seem willing to budge, or at least he hasn't so far in his 83-game MLB career. After all, it wasn't too long ago scouts raved about his pure swing at the college level.

But this isn't college ball.

"It's more mindset than mechanics," Torkelson said May 18 in St. Petersburg. "My swing is my swing."
 

Are we sure that Tork is willing to make changes?

 

According to the DetNews, Hinch says Tork has too many voices in his ears - He needs to just go to AAA see the ball and hit it. So isn't the manager supposed to be controlling the coaching his players are getting? Hinch apparently thinks the hitting coaching in Toledo is better than Detroit?

 

Quote

We’re looking at his swing from the front, the back and the side and everybody is in his ear,” Hinch said. “He might actually need less information. That might do him a better service than to continually feed him which box he’s not hitting, what pitches he needs to be hitting what his hard-hit rate is.

“Just go out and beat the pitcher. Just go out and compete against the pitcher. Don’t just keep trying to repeat a groove swing that’s not producing results.”

“I think we need less people in his ear, less iPad. Just clear his head and get back to seeing the ball and hitting the ball. Have a plan, execute the plan and the success will follow. He’s too good a hitter for us to continue to let him grind at this level.”

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2022/07/17/detroit-tigers-option-spencer-torkelson-toledo-mud-hens/10081792002/

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

According to the DetNews, Hinch says Tork has too many voices in his ears - He needs to just go to AAA see the ball and hit it. So isn't the manager supposed to be controlling the coaching his players are getting? Hinch apparently thinks the hitting coaching in Toledo is better than Detroit?

 

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2022/07/17/detroit-tigers-option-spencer-torkelson-toledo-mud-hens/10081792002/

That sure sounds like shitty coaching to me and a manager who can't control the flow of information.

[Toddwert]

4 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

That sure sounds like shitty coaching to me and a manager who can't control the flow of information.

your assuming its people inside the team doing it.... it could be old coaches , friends and family doing it  and i dont know how Hinch is suppose to control that

[mtutiger]

13 hours ago, kdog said:

From Petzold:

This is where the complexity arrives. Significant changes — whether in-season or during the offseason — could be necessary for Torkelson to thrive at the highest level. His mechanics aren't allowing him to adjust and attack pitches he's supposed to crush. Torkelson too often ends up in a weak position when his front foot hits the ground, a product of inconsistent timing. He either whiffs or doesn't hit the ball hard enough, even when the pitch travels over the heart of the plate.

Torkelson, though, doesn't seem willing to budge, or at least he hasn't so far in his 83-game MLB career. After all, it wasn't too long ago scouts raved about his pure swing at the college level.

But this isn't college ball.

"It's more mindset than mechanics," Torkelson said May 18 in St. Petersburg. "My swing is my swing."
 

Are we sure that Tork is willing to make changes?

 

His swing is great and mechanically very sound but for the most part he hasn't shown much ability to deviate from that swing in order to put bat-on-ball in key situations.

The bloop, go ahead hit he had against the Texas Rangers in the finale of that series was one of the rare times we saw him doing anything of the sort... 

Maybe some time away will help, we'll see. Mentally, he still seems confident, but that confidence may be part of the problem at this point if it's inhibiting his ability to make adjustments.

[kdog]

I don't have a detnews sub but Wojo has called for Avila's firing.

[1776]

7 minutes ago, kdog said:

I don't have a detnews sub but Wojo has called for Avila's firing.

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[1776]

2 hours ago, Toddwert said:

your assuming its people inside the team doing it.... it could be old coaches , friends and family doing it  and i dont know how Hinch is suppose to control that

Your comment reminds me of the feud, of sorts, Tony LaRussa had with Colby Rasmus and his dad. LaRussa was convinced Rasmus’ dad was interfering with the Cardinals’ message on hitting. 

[Jim Cowan]

2 hours ago, Toddwert said:

your assuming its people inside the team doing it.... it could be old coaches , friends and family doing it  and i dont know how Hinch is suppose to control that

Then how would going to Toledo change anything?

[Toddwert]

58 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Then how would going to Toledo change anything?

how would it change if its coaches in the org.? they can still watch his games and contact him

[Tiger337]

"too many voices in his ears". That sounds serious.  

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

how would it change if its coaches in the org.? they can still watch his games and contact him

If you didn’t hire a coach that is able to cut through the noise and connect with the player with the *right* answers, you hired the wrong coach-at least for that guy. We could be reaching a Chuck Hernandez situation where Coolbaugh’s disconnect from one of the most important players he is responsible for means he has to go regardless of whatever else he brought in the past. (Assuming that the tribal history is correct that Hernandez was fired over conflicts with the young JV)

Edited July 18, 2022 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

His swing is great and mechanically very sound but for the most part he hasn't shown much ability to deviate from that swing in order to put bat-on-ball in key situations.

The bloop, go ahead hit he had against the Texas Rangers in the finale of that series was one of the rare times we saw him doing anything of the sort... 

Maybe some time away will help, we'll see. Mentally, he still seems confident, but that confidence may be part of the problem at this point if it's inhibiting his ability to make adjustments.

I still think he is just thinking too much,  which is inhibiting his reaction time and making him late on the FB most of the time. He needs to relax and just rip. This is why I wonder if the org’s whole data driven approach may be exactly wrong for him.

Edited July 18, 2022 by gehringer_2

[SoCalTiger]

Good to see the local press putting heat on Chris to make serious changes starting with Avila. Time for a new vision screen for sure.

[chasfh]

20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I still think he is just thinking too much,  which is inhibiting his reaction time and making him late on the FB most of the time. He needs to relax and just rip. This is why I wonder if the org’s whole data driven approach may be exactly wrong for him.

One of the stories about Tork basically has Tork saying hey, my swing is my swing, when I'm sitting dead red for a fastball and he throws a slider and I swing and miss, that's fine, I'll get him on the next pitch, and it's all about mindset and not mechanics. That pretty much dovetails pretty much into what you're saying here. I don't know whether that's the case, but I will say that a guy who can't adjust his swing for the pitch he didn't expect isn't going to do well in the big leagues very consistently.

[gkelly]

He looks overmatched by MLB pitchers.  Who knows what will happen in the future, but he needs to turn it around or he will be a huge bust.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:30 PM, Tiger337 said:

Daniel Cabrera?  Can we say "told you so" after he is released?

My Boy's up to a .822 OPS this month in AA!!!! Start believing folks!

[Tenacious D]

49 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

My Boy's up to a .822 OPS this month in AA!!!! Start believing folks!

I want to.  Nothing wrong with taking a bit more time to develop.  Hope he gets there.