2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[chasfh]

38 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Other possibilities are improvement by young players and better health.  

That may be the only thing we can hope for, for next year at least. Baby Doc committed nearly a quarter billion dollars to free agents this past winter and all he's gotten for it so far is a team careening towards 100 losses. I could see him shying away from big ticket free agents for a little while.

[chasfh]

41 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I doubt the Tigers will position themselves that way.  If they really want to sell him, they will point to the young core that has had some unfortunate injuries and bad luck.  They won't be tearing anything down (or at least I doubt the new GM will overtly do that).  Of course, they will play to his ego, by telling him they will move Baez to 2B to accommodate him, and that he will be an essential part of their quick turnaround.  I don't think their record this year will have any bearing on his decision.  Remember that this is a guy who had to sign a one-year deal last offseason, so he'll follow money and long term security 

I doubt we can convince Correa that we will not still be rebuilding next year.

The Tigers said they would compete this year and look what's happened, and everyone on the Tigers looks miserable playing out the string. Correa is surely noticing that. I don't think the Tigers could overpay Correa enough to get him to come here, I don't think Baby Doc would offer to overpay him enough to get here, and I can't imagine any way Correa would be forced to take a Tigers offer in the aftermath of no other team bidding on what is still the best shortstop in the game.

[SoCalTiger]

I also don’t think Carlos Correa is coming to Detroit although if the Twins don’t make the playoffs his “intangibles “ will suffer and his expectation might not be met by the market so a similar deal like the Twins got might be in the offering. 

[pyrotigers]

I would simply go back in time and sign the much better player instead of half assing everything like the Tigers always do. 

[chasfh]

22 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I also don’t think Carlos Correa is coming to Detroit although if the Twins don’t make the playoffs his “intangibles “ will suffer and his expectation might not be met by the market so a similar deal like the Twins got might be in the offering. 

Correa's going to be a five-win player coming off a seven-win season, and he's due to play in nearly 140 games, with part of the lost time due to COVID protocols, so that might help allay some of the concerns of him being often-injured. He might still not get a deal as rich as he did this past winter, but I think there's at least a decent chance he does.

[RandyMarsh]

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

In our defense:

2022 Tigers: 79 wRC+

Don Kelly career: 72 wRC+

[casimir]

7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Advantage Kelly, with the deciding factor being grit, which is noticeably missing from the above metrics.

[buddha]

51 minutes ago, chasfh said:

In our defense:

2022 Tigers: 79 wRC+

Don Kelly career: 72 wRC+

and jim leyland batted him third cause he was playing for sheffield and sheffield batted third...

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

and jim leyland batted him third cause he was playing for sheffield and sheffield batted third...

Kelly batted third?  I thought that was Clete Thomas' spot.

[RandyMarsh]

I miss the days when I cared enough about the team to bitch and get fired up at decisions like Clete batting 3rd, now I'm so apathetic to the team a decision like that may warrant a shoulder shrug from me and that's it. 

[chasfh]

10 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I miss the days when I cared enough about the team to bitch and get fired up at decisions like Clete batting 3rd, now I'm so apathetic to the team a decision like that may warrant a shoulder shrug from me and that's it. 

That's understandable. The Tigers have been drafting, trading, developing, and performing in an apathy-inducing way for about seven years now. I respect diehards and I do consider myself one, but that doesn't necessarily mean committing to living and dying with each game or each season no matter what they do. I think it's OK for our passion to wax and wane based on how seriously the team is competing, to be excited and engaged when they're focused and successful, and apathetic when they look for all the world like they have no idea what they're doing.

Edited September 16, 2022 by chasfh

[bobrob2004]

23 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I miss the days when I cared enough about the team to bitch and get fired up at decisions like Clete batting 3rd, now I'm so apathetic to the team a decision like that may warrant a shoulder shrug from me and that's it. 

I think I saw Hinch batting Willi Castro 3rd once this year. Everyone just saw that as normal. 

[Dan Gilmore]

Everyone? Name two.

[oblong]

Anyone see McCoskey's article behind the paywall about the fences?  He didn't confirm they are doing anything but said there's been a lot of activity with people measuring, checking things out, etc. this year.  Engineer types.  And he quoted Dusty Baker, maybe incorrectly, that "they're moving them in".   

I think the simplest thing is to get rid of the angled wall.  Straighten that out, add some seats to fill in the gap, without impeding the requirement to have a blank hitting backdrop, and possible move the CF fence in a little to straighten in out.... you still have a deep, but reasonable, OF.  And for dollars and sense..... from my seats along the RF line, I can't see that board so there's more advertising eyeballs to see whatever corporate sponsor is on there.

 

[gehringer_2]

44 minutes ago, oblong said:

Anyone see McCoskey's article behind the paywall about the fences?  He didn't confirm they are doing anything but said there's been a lot of activity with people measuring, checking things out, etc. this year.  Engineer types.  And he quoted Dusty Baker, maybe incorrectly, that "they're moving them in".   

I think the simplest thing is to get rid of the angled wall.  Straighten that out, add some seats to fill in the gap, without impeding the requirement to have a blank hitting backdrop, and possible move the CF fence in a little to straighten in out.... you still have a deep, but reasonable, OF.  And for dollars and sense..... from my seats along the RF line, I can't see that board so there's more advertising eyeballs to see whatever corporate sponsor is on there.

 

I would just replace the CF wall with a long curved one that met the LF and RF walls on a tangent and eliminated the 430 areas. That would also leave the 420 zone narrower. Actually I wouldn't do anything but that would be a solution I wouldn't mind a lot. 

[oblong]

Here's the park overlayed on some others... I never realized the RF fence goes out at a slight >90 degree angle before it juts out even further.  That's how it appears to me.

 

https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/select-home-run-park-factors-visualized/

 

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I would just replace the CF wall with a long curved one that met the LF and RF walls on a tangent and eliminated the 430 areas. That would also leave the 420 zone narrower. Actually I wouldn't do anything but that would be a solution I wouldn't mind a lot. 

Agreed on both counts.

I don't care about the wall, but I suspect they will move it sooner or later

[sabretooth]

5 hours ago, chasfh said:

That's understandable. The Tigers have been drafting, trading, developing, and performing in an apathy-inducing way for about seven years now. I respect diehards and I do consider myself one, but that doesn't necessarily mean committing to living and dying with each game or each season no matter what they do. I think it's OK for our passion to wax and wane based on how seriously the team is competing, to be excited and engaged when they're focused and successful, and apathetic when they look for all the world like they have no idea what they're doing.

With 4 of the top 6 guys in the lineup being rookies who have been OPS+ing 120 - 180 for the last 30 days, watching them has been interesting.  I also like Haase FWIW.  The rest of the lineup is not worth watching at all, though naturally I really like what I've seen from Jiminez and Chafin in the BP.

[sabretooth]

https://motorcitybengals.com/2022/09/14/the-detroit-tigers-gm-search-wreaks-of-incompetence/amp/

Seems accurate and predictable.

The same owner that gave you the last 5 years of Al Avila will now give you another uninspired hire.

I think whoever they hire will be more talented than Avila but that's a pretty low bar.

Edited September 17, 2022 by sabretooth

[oblong]

2 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

https://motorcitybengals.com/2022/09/14/the-detroit-tigers-gm-search-wreaks-of-incompetence/amp/

Seems accurate and predictable.

The same owner that gave you the last 5 years of Al Avila will now give you another uninspired hire.

I think whoever they hire will be more talented than Avila but that's a pretty low bar.

That article of column isn’t really sourced with new info though.  He’s making a judgement call that because those are the only names publicly speculated on by members of the media then that must mean those are the only considerations.  We don’t know who they are talking to and neither does he or Henning or McCosky or Cody.  He’s basically concluding they suck at if because of speculation. 

I am not saying they won’t screen it up. Just we haven’t seen a reason to assume that yet 

[sabretooth]

36 minutes ago, oblong said:

That article of column isn’t really sourced with new info though.  He’s making a judgement call that because those are the only names publicly speculated on by members of the media then that must mean those are the only considerations.  We don’t know who they are talking to and neither does he or Henning or McCosky or Cody.  He’s basically concluding they suck at if because of speculation. 

I am not saying they won’t screen it up. Just we haven’t seen a reason to assume that yet 

I can't speak to the particulars because I'm doing this while I'm driving and cannot research at this moment.

 For what it's worth I didn't post this column because I thought it was a scoop.   I posted it because the guy's thinking about the publicly speculated candidates aligned with my own thinking.

I'll quickly compare my sense of this search at this moment to the most recent executive search, being the Lions.

My sense throughout in terms of how the Lions handled their last search was that they were engaged with the media and worked to align public expectations.   

At the time I had a sense of who was involved in what each person was contributing and it made sense to me.   I also had a good sense that they were looking to establish a new management team that would be forward looking and not simply a retread or some other lazy approach.   I surely had my doubts because of the inexperience of the owner, but it seemed like a sound process with a good and viable goal.  

If we really don't know anything about this, and they're doing something good behind the scenes, OK fine.   I think it would be better for them to establish and align the public's expectations so that they can build support for the outcome.  

My intuition tells me that's a list that has been put out there is probably pretty close to the mark.   If thats wrong and they hire somebody better great.

[gehringer_2]

56 minutes ago, oblong said:

That article of column isn’t really sourced with new info though.  He’s making a judgement call that because those are the only names publicly speculated on by members of the media then that must mean those are the only considerations.  We don’t know who they are talking to and neither does he or Henning or McCosky or Cody.  He’s basically concluding they suck at if because of speculation. 

I am not saying they won’t screen it up. Just we haven’t seen a reason to assume that yet 

yup. I think people have a really narrow/faulty/imcomplete perspective when they look at a guy like Chris Ilitch. He runs a multibillion corporation that does high level executive searches on a regular basis and has connection to all the professionals in that field that anyone else does. People at Ilitch's level can and do screw decisions just like every else, the difference is that they normally have less excuse just because they are generally getting the best advice money can buy. 

[sabretooth]

Put another way at this point you're probably not going to find a better fan of Hinch... But I'm not going to have good feelings about the new GM just because hes somebody that Hinch is comfortable with.

A preexistent good relationship with Hinch might be a plus, and it might be a minus.   I've seen plenty of cases in life where a symbiotic relationship works best, and some cases where a more dynamic relationship works best.

[bobrob2004]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

yup. I think people have a really narrow/faulty/imcomplete perspective when they look at a guy like Chris Ilitch. He runs a multibillion corporation that does high level executive searches on a regular basis and has connection to all the professionals in that field that anyone else does. People at Ilitch's level can and do screw decisions just like every else, the difference is that they normally have less excuse just because they are generally getting the best advice money can buy. 

I think Chris Ilitch is very disinterested in owning the Tigers and is just going through the motions.  I don't see the same passion in him as I did with his father.  I don't think he wants to sell because it would feel like he would be letting down his father.  I don't think he really cares about who the next GM will be, which is why there's talk of Hinch being involved in the selection process (and why I think Menzin will ultimately take over permanently).  I think if Ilitch had it his way, Avilia would still be the GM, but he fired him to appease the fan base and not because he thinks it will be better for the Tigers.  I don't think he really cares how the Tigers do.  If he really wants to have a better team, he would have also fired Hinch and all the coaching staff along with Avila.  Ilitch is just doing the bare minimum to try to keep the fans happy.

That's just my perspective of things.  I could be wrong.