Motor City Sonics Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: I always thought that Beckham screwed up his career all by himself. If he had called himself "Gord" or "Gordie" that would have been worth another 50 points of OPS right there. But "Gordon", come on did you think you were a mortician an accountant? It works for Lightfoot and Ramsey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: It works for Lightfoot and Ramsey. Gord's Gold... that's the good stuff there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Tiger337 said: A hard throwing right hander who won't be ready for three or more years and then gets hurt when they call him up. one thing is for sure....when that happens, it will all be hinch's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 1 hour ago, buddha said: one thing is for sure....when that happens, it will all be hinch's fault. No, it won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 7 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: No, it won't. Yes it will, since he doesn’t know outfield defense from shinola. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, chasfh said: Yes it will, since he doesn’t know outfield defense from shinola. he's made gambles that came up losers. Managers are going to that, it's their job, but when too many bets come up losers, you're going to get heat because they're paying you to have it come out the other way. My guess it that to some degree Hinch felt pressure to get the team to play better than they were, and the injuries just made it worse, so he forced things a little, hoping to escape with nothing bad happening. But when he put Willi out there the ball found him and playing Harold a lot at SS instead of bringing up Short resulting in a lot of balls he couldn't handle finding Harold as well. Maybe the odds were that didn't have to happen, but it did. Statistics make predictions but the future decides itself. For better or worse, sports is an outcomes based business. Edited May 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 Avila should have been fired long ago, Hinch is a good manager, In an organization that valued success, the total collapse of every batter would - right or wrong - prompt some change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: he's made gambles that came up losers. Managers are going to that, it's their job, but when too many bets come up losers, you're going to get heat because they're paying you to have it come out the other way. An idea which isn't inconsistent with thinking Al isn't a good GM and should go. Or even that AJ, on the whole, is a good manager. Both things can be true at the same time. Some just seem to get really touchy when you question AJ on game decisions and the possible impact on the outcome. Edited May 9, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 It's so bad that I am clamoring for Victor Reyes to return. How bad is this injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 9, 2022 Author Share Posted May 9, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: An idea which isn't inconsistent with thinking Al isn't a good GM and should go. Or even that AJ, on the whole, is a good manager. Both things can be true at the same time. Some just seem to get really touchy when you question AJ on game decisions and the possible impact on the outcome. Yes, some do. I wonder who? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Yes, some do. I wonder who? 🤔 I'd start here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 AJ has had to get creative because he has a flawed roster that is somehow last in homeruns and stolen bases. And bad at defense. Grossman, Meadows, Badoo, and Reyes are all LF'ers. The middle infield reserves are below averaged defenders at SS. And the bat first bench guy in Haase is bad wherever you put him, and he is not a good hitter either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 11 hours ago, casimir said: Yes, it was a lot like Mark Lewis and Andujar Cedeno. It sucked. I had high hopes for Mark Lewis when he got off to a great start and still had an OPS of over .800 in mid-June. He fell apart after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 10 hours ago, buddha said: one thing is for sure....when that happens, it will all be hinch's fault. If the Tigers are under .500 for the ninth straight year, fans will probably start blaming Hinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Stanley70 said: AJ has had to get creative because he has a flawed roster that is somehow last in homeruns and stolen bases. And bad at defense. Grossman, Meadows, Badoo, and Reyes are all LF'ers. The middle infield reserves are below averaged defenders at SS. And the bat first bench guy in Haase is bad wherever you put him, and he is not a good hitter either. IDK, I was really surprised to see either Castro even on the roster this season. I figured with Reyes, Cameron and Hill available as reserve OFs and Clemen, Short, Krieidler available they would have cut bait on both of them. You can put me down as unhappy with whichever half the Avila/Hinch brain trust is responsible for those choices. Willi is a disaster waiting to happen every time he steps on the field. To me Harold is the classic fool's gold ballplayer. The BA sucks you in but everything else about his game ends up hurting you. They keep hunting for the reincarnation of Donny Kelly, but there can be only one! Edited May 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: IDK, I was really surprised to see either Castro even on the roster this season. I figured with Reyes, Cameron and Hill available as reserve OFs and Clemen, Short, Krieidler available they would have cut bait on both of them. You can put me down as unhappy with whichever half the Avila/Hinch brain trust is responsible for those choices. Willi is a disaster waiting to happen every time he steps on the field. To me Harold is the classic fool's gold ballplayer. The BA sucks you in but everything else about his game ends up hurting you. Yep.... 100%. They've been hit with the injury bug (with Kreidler / Reyes), but even so, they aren't even in the position that led to Willi getting playing time in left in 2021 (ie. Hill and Baddoo colliding with one another in Baltimore and losing games, Niko Goodrum being lost to a hamstring in the same series). I get why they are keeping Willi around, and that may be as much of an Al thing as an AJ thing, but the experiment of putting him out in left should have been left behind in 2021. It's not like this is a new criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: If the Tigers are under .500 for the ninth straight year, fans will probably start blaming Hinch. they only have so many talented players, and a lot of them are hurt. i choose to blame the guys who acquired that lack of talent for the last 8 years. i do think they'll get better as the year goes on, just like last year. if they can get healthy. one would expect tork to get better. greene will likely struggle once he gets in, but should at least be a defensive upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Yes it will, since he doesn’t know outfield defense from shinola. No, it won't. The allegation was that Hinch would be blamed for poor individual performance. That has never happened here, ever. What has happened here is that he was given credit for good individual performance, frequently. But what has never happened here is that he was blamed for poor individual performance, ever. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the defensive alignment that he chose for the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the defensive alignment that he chose for the outfield. What's fun is that a manager has to consider not only stats, but game theory and risk analysis as well. (of course none of them do that explicitly, that's the part they are talking about when they say they 'had a feeling'). You don't get to repeat a game 10,000 times in a monte carlo simulation where eventually the average outcome converges to mean statistics. The game is played once and whatever happens is what happens - outliers and all. So you are actually faced with not only what might happen on average, but how much risk you want to take that a lower probability result that has a higher severity rears its head like a badly played OF ball that leads to multiple bases and an extended inning for a rookie pitcher who may already be at the edge of his mental endurance. That kind of complexity is one of many reasons why I don't think we will ever reduce managing a baseball game to just reading the analytics. Edited May 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: No, it won't. The allegation was that Hinch would be blamed for poor individual performance. That has never happened here, ever. What has happened here is that he was given credit for good individual performance, frequently. But what has never happened here is that he was blamed for poor individual performance, ever. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the defensive alignment that he chose for the outfield. people in the thread said he "would" be blamed. i have no idea if he will be or not. i was just commenting my displeasure with his boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, buddha said: they only have so many talented players, and a lot of them are hurt. i choose to blame the guys who acquired that lack of talent for the last 8 years. i do think they'll get better as the year goes on, just like last year. if they can get healthy. one would expect tork to get better. greene will likely struggle once he gets in, but should at least be a defensive upgrade. I agree there is not much a manager can do without players or even with players for that matter. It's the players. I need to see what the team looks like once Green, Torkelson, Manning and Mize reach their potential before I decide that the franchise is doomed. And I do realize, there is a good chance we'll be disappointed by some of the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 38 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: What's fun is that a manager has to consider not only stats, but game theory and risk analysis as well. You don't get to repeat a game 10,000 times in a monte carlo simulation where eventually the average outcome converges to mean statistics. The game is played once and whatever happens is what happens - outliers and all. So you are actually faced with not only what might happen on average, but how much risk you want to take that a lower probability result that has a higher severity rears its head like a badly played OF ball that leads to multiple bases and an extended inning for a rookie pitcher who may already be at the edge of his mental endurance. That kind of complexity is one of many reasons why I don't think we will ever reduce managing a baseball game to just reading the analytics. I don't think a managers job is so much risk analysis or game theory. The analysts can figure that out better than a manager. It just requires more detailed analysis than we are used to seeing. I think a manager's job is less risk analysis and game theory and more trying to figure out when a given player is not up to performing as expected in a given situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: Avila should have been fired long ago, Hinch is a good manager, In an organization that valued success, the total collapse of every batter would - right or wrong - prompt some change. Al should have been fired when he extended Ausmus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 The fact that we are STILL recycling through Willie Castro, Harold Castro, Cameron, Hill, etc makes me wonder about our player evaluation abilities. Waiting for Victor Reyes to come back. Playing Badoo in centerfield. Maybe other teams do the same but it seems we take a long time to decide about a player which makes me wonder if they can evaluate properly. Look at what Cleveland has done. I mean who are these guys playing so well. SF, Rays, Seattle and others turn over constantly and remain competitive and we still don't know that Willie Castro can't play at the MLB level ? Cleveland let him go how long ago ? It's easy to pile on when the team is down and I am trying not to do so but it sucks as fan to keep hoping and have the hopes shattered ! We are the second worst team in baseball. Think about that. After so much off season promise once again the playoffs were dashed before Mothers day. I hear Hinch saying we need to sty positive because negativity make things worse. makes sense but how much worse can it get ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 The Tigers won't be a consistent over 500 team until they start producing homegrown, cost controlled, first division position players. Supposedly they are integrating a bunch of analytics and technology in the minors that will start yielding results, but even that will take time. I'm not sure how Avila gets credit for these changes when he is about 10 years behind the rest of MLB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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