2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[Motor City Sonics]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:28 PM, gehringer_2 said:

the most I can hope for in my most optimistic moments it that Victor and Clemens are being held at Toledo so they can be absolutely sure before they DFA Willi and/or Harold

Why would you DFA Willi, he's one of the few guys actually hitting and when Reyes is called back the should not only send Hill down, but they need to sit Grossman for a day or two.  He's not even walking anymore.    Willi-Reyes-Meadows Sunday

I'd like the following lineup

Meadows, rf
Baez, ss
Miggy, dh
Candelario, 3b  (much as I hate this, who else?)
Willi, lf   (hey, he's hitting, might as well ride it while it lasts)
Schoop 2b  (gotta break up the Schoop-Candy black hole) 
Barnhart, c  
Torkelson 1b  (keep rolling him out there, i guess)
Reyes, cf  (why keep him down any longer?)

 

Grossman needs a day off,  I think Candy does too, but I don't know that anyone else can play third base at all.  What a terrible roster.   

    
 

 

 

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why would you DFA Willi, he's one of the few guys actually hitting and when Reyes is called back the should not only send Hill down, but they need to sit Grossman for a day or two.  He's not even walking anymore.    Willi-Reyes-Meadows Sunday

I'd like the following lineup

Meadows, rf
Baez, ss
Miggy, dh
Candelario, 3b  (much as I hate this, who else?)
Willi, lf   (hey, he's hitting, might as well ride it while it lasts)
Schoop 2b  (gotta break up the Schoop-Candy black hole) 
Barnhart, c  
Torkelson 1b  (keep rolling him out there, i guess)
Reyes, cf  (why keep him down any longer?)

 

Grossman needs a day off,  I think Candy does too, but I don't know that anyone else can play third base at all.  What a terrible roster.   

    
 

 

 

Because I still tend to believe Willi's hot streaks with the bat will end up a mirage and there is no place safe in the OF to put him. If we want to ride a hot streak till it ends, sure - why not, but I'm still unconvinced he is a long term solution to anything. They've been able to give him ABs against LHP, but LHP are only 25-30% of the AB that eventually have to be played. You need OFs that can catch and hit RHP.

Edited May 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Because I still tend to believe Willi's hot streaks with the bat will end up a mirage and there is no place safe in the OF to put him. If we want to ride a hot streak till it ends, sure - why not, but I'm still unconvinced he is a long term solution to anything.

I'm not talking about long term, I am talking about right now, about trying to dig out of this current hole.   I'd rather see Willi than Hilly.   Hill was drafted in 2014.  If it ain't clicked by now, it's never going to.   

[gehringer_2]

21 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I'm not talking about long term, I am talking about right now, about trying to dig out of this current hole.   I'd rather see Willi than Hilly.   Hill was drafted in 2014.  If it ain't clicked by now, it's never going to.   

that is the problem. Reyes and Hill don't hit RHP either, but at least are reasonable OFs. I suppose it depends on the upcoming pitching matchups mostly. Are there more LHPs in the offing? Willie will probably crash once we see a string of RHP, and about then an OF gaff will cost another game.

Edited May 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

The best case scenario would be to just go to 13 pitchers and keep all three.

Hill is the least dynamic offensively, but he makes up for it with his speed and defense. He can be useful as a pinch runner late in games as well, as he did occasionally when the big man would get on base late in games last year 

[gehringer_2]

Actually, if you want an honest knock on Avila, I'd say one of them is his penchant for falling for what I would call 'faux switch hitters" i.e., guys who stand in the LH batters box against RHP but actually have worse platoon splits against RHP than the average RH only hitter.  Goodrum, W. Castro, Reyes all examples. When your OPS platoon split is >200 pts, it's unclear why you aren't just hitting from your better side.

Edited May 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

The best case scenario would be to just go to 13 pitchers and keep all three.

Hill is the least dynamic offensively, but he makes up for it with his speed and defense. He can be useful as a pinch runner late in games as well, as he did occasionally when the big man would get on base late in games last year 

They can shuffle Ps between Detroit & Toledo as needed if they arms get worn down.

It was pondered above that Candelario and Grossman need a day off.  OK, 12 position players on the roster, and Meadows has been out due to an ear infection.  So, yeah, go ahead and bench both of them for a game or two.  Castros and Haase covering 3B/LF.  Oh, unless Barnhart needs a day off from behind the plate.

The day-to-day roster management of contents of position players and pitchers gets Avila & Hinch an F so far this season.  Its been absolutely asinine.  The bats have been awful, the degree of which they are below career averages / reasonable 2022 expectations falls on the players themselves.  But, especially the last week with Meadows unavailable due to sinus infection and ear infection, they've had one position player and a catcher on the bench.  What in game moves can be made?  With the schedule as its been, its managing days off and holding the two bench guys back more as injury replacement rather than making an in game move to win a ball game.  And the other team knows this, so their bullpen management is more checkers than chess.

[chasfh]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:08 PM, Jim Cowan said:

Daz Cameron is getting every opportunity to get his career back on track, batting 3rd every night.  His OPS is .581

We did get Daz in exchange for future hall-of-famer Justin Verlander, and he is the son of a good major leaguer, so they're giving 25-year-old Daz Cameron every chance to prove Al did not blow that trade.

[chasfh]

Turns out Chris Ilitch did not exactly kick Ken Holland to the curb. He offered instead to kick Ken Holland upstairs and become senior vice president with a contract extension, in a show of corporate loyalty. Ken chose to go to the Oilers so he could keep his hands dirty as a GM. That's what I got from one story in the Freep, anyway—maybe there's another story that disputes this account and contends that Baby Doc is a cold-blooded corporate killer after all.

If the story is true, then kicking Al Avila upstairs, which I'd mentioned would not happen in the post that kicked off his sidebar, is what I think would be the most likely good case scenario, and they aren't going to do that just yet. But since there is precedent for it, perhaps it's in the cards after, maybe after 2023. And I would handicap the chances that Al turns that down and goes to another team as GM as being 0%, ± 0%. Al's definitely sticking around for the pension.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Turns out Chris Ilitch did not exactly kick Ken Holland to the curb. He offered instead to kick Ken Holland upstairs and become senior vice president with a contract extension, in a show of corporate loyalty. Ken chose to go to the Oilers so he could keep his hands dirty as a GM. That's what I got from one story in the Freep, anyway—maybe there's another story that disputes this account and contends that Baby Doc is a cold-blooded corporate killer after all.

If the story is true, then kicking Al Avila upstairs, which I'd mentioned would not happen in the post that kicked off his sidebar, is what I think would be the most likely good case scenario, and they aren't going to do that just yet. But since there is precedent for it, perhaps it's in the cards after, maybe after 2023. And I would handicap the chances that Al turns that down and goes to another team as GM as being 0%, ± 0%. Al's definitely sticking around for the pension.

Yes, Kenny got the Cul-de-sac. “We are happy to keep paying you in retirement for past services but your present services are no longer required.

[sabretooth]

You cant blame Avila for being a below average GM....you can blame Chris for tanking resources for 5 years in the silly hope that Avila would build a top-flight organization that excels at drafting/development, trading, and FA acquisition.

After 2021, I figured that the hire of Hinch and Fetters made them at least capable of getting the most out of most guys, which along with the tank picks and other acquisitions would be enough to get them over 500 (as projected by Fangraphs before the season) and give them a reasonable shot at the playoffs this year amd going forward.

Injuries and a mass of cold starts has hurt them, probably enough to take the playoffs and likely even winning this year out of reach.

The bad luck so far is not AAs fault, and neither is the fact that hes a mediocre GM at best.  

The main problem remains that we have had to wait for 5 years to start to crawl back to respectability, and a team was built this year thay was projected to win 83 games as long as things went right.  That means that because things have broken a little here or there, here we are in the soup again, with some fans incredibly talking about tanking again, which would be insane if they did that (I really think tanking is not an option that they will consider).

They at least got the spending up to a respectable level, but the marginal results and expectations at this point is really Chris I's fault for sticking with AA....another better GM, if hired some years ago, would have had more on the table roster-wise from the development of non-tanking picks, something that has been a bust under AA.  Add in the so-so FAs (though AA has at least avoided the **big** misses in the last couple of years) and thats why we are here.

[sabretooth]

The bottom line is that AA needs to go, but they should keep Hinch.

[sabretooth]

....and to be frank, even if AA goes, with Chris I doing the hiring, I am not confident at all that he would find the right replacement, especially given Chris' apparent low-risk approach to profit-making, which IMO requires a superior GM talent with superior support and org staff/resources.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

especially given Chris' apparent low-risk approach to profit-making

I think Chris saw both teams go boom and bust under his father and by all evidence decided to do it differently. I think he is more patient than his fan base. He's the chief tortoise in the mix so we are stuck with his pace.

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

....and to be frank, even if AA goes, with Chris I doing the hiring, I am not confident at all that he would find the right replacement, especially given Chris' apparent low-risk approach to profit-making, which IMO requires a superior GM talent with superior support and org staff/resources.

Teams—or more exactly, organizations—are bad for decades on end usually because of ownership more than anything else, since owners are those who are hiring the front office personnel who reflect what owners see in themselves.

This is why I am rooting for Hinch to have a crack at the GM job: he may have seemed like the kind of damaged goods you could get for cents on the dollar to mollify the fan base when we first got him, but I also think based on my admittedly limited insight that he is the right guy for that job, and we have him in our midst today. If Baby Doc blows this and hires a failed GM from some other second- or third-tier organization to replace Al, I'm thinking that's pretty much it for hoping for a baseball renaissance under this ownership.

[sabretooth]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Teams—or more exactly, organizations—are bad for decades on end usually because of ownership more than anything else, since owners are those who are hiring the front office personnel who reflect what owners see in themselves.

This is why I am rooting for Hinch to have a crack at the GM job: he may have seemed like the kind of damaged goods you could get for cents on the dollar to mollify the fan base when we first got him, but I also think based on my admittedly limited insight that he is the right guy for that job, and we have him in our midst today. If Baby Doc blows this and hires a failed GM from some other second- or third-tier organization to replace Al, I'm thinking that's pretty much it for hoping for a baseball renaissance under this ownership.

Outstanding idea re: Hinch as GM

[sabretooth]

17 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think Chris saw both teams go boom and bust under his father and by all evidence decided to do it differently. I think he is more patient than his fan base. He's the chief tortoise in the mix so we are stuck with his pace.

We dont lack patience....this team since 2000 has the 4th worst record in MLB.  Thats WITH the DD era of mostly winning from 2006-2014.  The ownership.has only excelled here since the 90s if they hire the right GM (DD) and give him the resources.  They have to do better than requiring a top 5 payroll, but they so need superior GM talent and ownership commitment, and thats sorely lacking under Chris I.

[bobrob2004]

3 hours ago, sabretooth said:

The bottom line is that AA needs to go, but they should keep Hinch.

I would get rid of both Avila and Hinch, similar to how they got rid of both Randy Smith and Phil Garner 20 years ago.  Start fresh all around, although I would to keep Fetter.

[chasfh]

Fetter is here because of Hinch. They work together as a package deal.

[gehringer_2]

It is nice to see the Tigers with the 3rd lowest runs allowed in the AL. Hopeful sign for someday when maybe they start to hit.

[Motor City Sonics]

Let's play Tiger Injury Bingo !

 

[Motor City Sonics]

Spencer Turnball  (see you next year)

Jake Rogers  (maybe throwing by the very end of this year)

Jose Cisnero  (no idea)

Kyle Funkhouser (no idea)

Riley Greene  (maybe mid June - why do I expect bad news?  oh, i don't know why, just a hunch this year)

Andrew Chafin - Chewy is back

Derek Hill - Late start, only a matter of time again

Javy Baez - right out of the gate and he's back but he's not himself yet. 

Casey Mize - something tells me TJ is in his future

Matt Manning - promising so far

Tyler Alexander  - no idea

Victor Reyes (TWICE) - hurt, plays 3 innings, gets hurt again

Austin Meadows - An inner ear infection and a very real possibility of Vertigo.  That could be a week,a month, a season or even a career (ask Nick Esasky)

Michael Pineda - broken middle finger seems appropriate (hopefully after the All Star Break?)

 

it's only May 16th.   

Look, they've played poorly and the biggest reason for the poor start has been terrible offense and horrendous, inexcusable defense, but come on, man.........this just isn't fair. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Motor City Sonics

[mtutiger]

Turning the Corner Podcast had an interesting discussion about leadership and how, at least from the outside, it seems like this team kinda lacks of a true leader in the clubhouse. And how many may have had a perception of Baez being that guy but that, despite his qualities as a showman on the field, is a much more complex dude off the field.

At this point, it seems like Barnhart fills that role to an extent, as he seems to talk to the media often and relay the mood of the team, but it's an interesting observation... I don't know that it matters much though.

[Motor City Sonics]

As far as Hill being a defensive specialist/pinch runner guy.    This team really doesn't need that right now.   That's a nice piece to have to be the 26th guy.   His defense looks a little of this year too.   I know they don't have much in the way of other options with Greene, Reyes and Meadows all hurt right now.      The Meadows thing is scary - it could go away today or it could linger for years.    Have we heard any update on Greene?     Daz Cameron really needs to show us something right now - this is his chance, but nothing indicates he'll give the Tigers a tough decision later. 

Where's Steven Moya?   Korea?  Japan?  Bring him back.  Kid's gonna be a star !

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Have we heard any update on Greene?

Cleared to start 'baseball activities' but still at least a week/2 to a rehab assignment