2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[mtutiger]

16 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

The second part is easy.   He’s a World Series champion with a good reputation managing current players.  GM’s like that combination.   The scandal is the only reason the Tigers were able to get him and every year that passes it gets farther away from blemishing him.  This is not a good team.  It’s proven obvious that the front office bought way too much into players coming off career seasons when building the roster.   I don’t think that will fall on AJ in baseball circles.     In fact, I bet he can spin this dreadful year as a positive learning experience that will make him a better manager.   Probably complete bs but some other team will eat it up.     I don’t think he has a problem finding a better job if he wants it.   

I'm not going to reiterate this over again as this subject has been beaten to death, other than to say that a lot of Tigers fans may have a slightly inflated view of how the league views AJ Hinch.

That's not to say that he isn't well respected or anything, but more to say that the NY Mets aren't firing Buck Showalter or the Dodgers aren't firing Dave Roberts or the Yankees aren't firing Boone all for the opportunity to hire AJ Hinch.

[chasfh]

15 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

On top of this in the 3 biggest trades they've made in the past decade in terms of getting back potentially a top 50 prospect that could be an impact bat they instead chose or atleast settled on a pitcher the centerpiece instead. I'm talking about Norris in the Price trade, Fulmer in the Cespedes trade and Franklin Perez in the JV trade. 

Good call. The need to stockpile pitching practically at the expense of everything else, as thought everything else would basically take care of themselves, strikes me as pathological.

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Avila has not been popular on this board for a long time.  Just because people question the awesomeness of the great AJ Hinch does not mean they like Avila as the GM.  

Also, criticisms of AJ's in game decisions are all a part of the job he holds.

We should be able to compartmentalize that from criticisms of the front office and it's failures.

Edited June 15, 2022 by mtutiger

[casimir]

The poor Texas Rangers.  They have no idea what kind of stirred up murder hornets’ nest they are walking into.

[Hongbit]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'm not going to reiterate this over again as this subject has been beaten to death, other than to say that a lot of Tigers fans may have a slightly inflated view of how the league views AJ Hinch.

That's not to say that he isn't well respected or anything, but more to say that the NY Mets aren't firing Buck Showalter or the Dodgers aren't firing Dave Roberts or the Yankees aren't firing Boone all for the opportunity to hire AJ Hinch.

Agree.  People aren’t firing their coaches for him but I see teams like the Angels, Cubs, Nats, and Mariners being very interested in him    

 

 

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'm not going to reiterate this over again as this subject has been beaten to death, other than to say that a lot of Tigers fans may have a slightly inflated view of how the league views AJ Hinch.

That's not to say that he isn't well respected or anything, but more to say that the NY Mets aren't firing Buck Showalter or the Dodgers aren't firing Dave Roberts or the Yankees aren't firing Boone all for the opportunity to hire AJ Hinch.

I also think that.  He is certainly smart, but I think his failure to stop the players from cheating when he was against it is a negative mark on his record.  It doesn't mean he can't learn from his mistakes, but I could see where teams might be a little hesitant about him.  

[CMRivdogs]

55 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don't think there's any way Hinch will leave after this season because (1) I think there might be a succession plan in place in which Hinch eventually gets the GM chair, which is something he's been on record throughout his career as being a goal of his; and (2) if he leaves after managing the team to 100 losses and literally one of the worst offense in baseball history, who's going to be falling all over themselves to put him in the manager's chair somewhere else?

Especially after you look at his track record at Arizona as well as Detroit. 

[Motown Bombers]

What has Hinch done outside of Houston, who continues to be a contender without him, that would make teams fall over themselves to hire him?

[casimir]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I also think that.  He is certainly smart, but I think his failure to stop the players from cheating when he was against it is a negative mark on his record.  It doesn't mean he can't learn from his mistakes, but I could see where teams might be a little hesitant about him.  

So there’s the cheating scandal.  There was no material change to Houston’s club (I’m tossing 2020 out) after he left.  There’s his lackluster record in Arizona.  There’s going to be an up season and a down season for Detroit after this season.  So what kind of resume does he have exactly?

Edit to add:  I should’of kept reading the responses.

Edited June 15, 2022 by casimir

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, casimir said:

So there’s the cheating scandal.  There was no material change to Houston’s club (I’m tossing 2020 out) after he left.  There’s his lackluster record in Arizona.  There’s going to be an up season and a down season for Detroit after this season.  So what kind of resume does he have exactly?

His up season in Detroit is still a losing season. 

[casimir]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

His up season in Detroit is still a losing season. 

Best losing season we’ve seen in a while.

[Hongbit]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

What has Hinch done outside of Houston, who continues to be a contender without him, that would make teams fall over themselves to hire him

Houston is like 90% of his managerial experience.  You can’t compare the cup of coffee in AZ and here.   He led a team that hadn’t been to postseason in a decade and went to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years in Houston and 2 World Series.   That’s impressive.   

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Agree.  People aren’t firing their coaches for him but I see teams like the Angels, Cubs, Nats, and Mariners being very interested in him    

 

 

The latter three are about as unappealing a job as Detroit is.

[casimir]

Just now, Hongbit said:

Houston is like 90% of his managerial experience.  You can’t compare the cup of coffee in AZ and here.   He led a team that hadn’t been to postseason in a decade and went to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years in Houston and 2 World Series.   That’s impressive.   

Was it Hinch?  Was it the roster?  Was it the trash cans?

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Hongbit said:

Houston is like 90% of his managerial experience.  You can’t compare the cup of coffee in AZ and here.   He led a team that hadn’t been to postseason in a decade and went to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years in Houston and 2 World Series.   That’s impressive.   

I suspect the rest of the league will take a more holistic view of his record. Accounting for whole record plus how things ended in Houston.

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Houston is like 90% of his managerial experience.  You can’t compare the cup of coffee in AZ and here.   He led a team that hadn’t been to postseason in a decade and went to the playoffs 4 times in 5 years in Houston and 2 World Series.   That’s impressive.   

But they are still good even without him.  

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The latter three are about as unappealing a job as Detroit is.

I think the Angels job is pretty appealing.  They've got a tremendous core of talent there.  

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, Dtrain72 said:

Soooooo, when would there be a time to panic? Not many other options in lieu of this current diaper fire.

It's never a good time to panic.

When you're under duress, and in a panic, you fuck up.

IIRC, I had this EXACT same conversation last year on this board (err, the old board) when the team started out of the gate and fell flat on its face. The exact same panic comments: "Fire Avila!", "Fire Hinch", "FIRE THEM ALL!!!", "Avila sucks, he's the worst, get rid of him!!!", "This year is WORSE than 2004!!!", etc., etc., etc... The EXACT same stream of comments.

I stated unequivocally last year to DON'T panic, it will get better.

And I am saying the same right now. Don't panic. 

The team sucks. We're under duress... so lets lash out and burn everything to the ground...

Not.

Players will get back from injuries. Hinch delivered his tongue lashing and I predict that starting tomorrow (or maybe later, we'll see with this team...) the team starts playing/ hitting better.

All the angst over drafting RHP's, while historically correct, does not guarantee future repeat results.

Greene and Tork will play much, much better. If not this year, then next. Baez will play much, much better, if not this year, then next.

Not to be the steady, reliable emotional touchstone here but (and Lee is correct, I'm not exactly the best guy to do that...), for right now, as much as everyone will absolutely hate this: I believe it's best to stay the course and ride this shit storm out.

The sun always comes back out to shine, even after a Cat 5 hurricane.

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

Who could ever forget the all-college-relievers draft? 

Now that was one seriously fucked up draft!!!

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think the Angels job is pretty appealing.  They've got a tremendous core of talent there.  

Yep, the Angels would be an appealing job. 

[casimir]

6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

It's never a good time to panic.

When you're under duress, and in a panic, you fuck up.

IIRC, I had this EXACT same conversation last year on this board (err, the old board) when the team started out of the gate and fell flat on its face. The exact same panic comments: "Fire Avila!", "Fire Hinch", "FIRE THEM ALL!!!", "Avila sucks, he's the worst, get rid of him!!!", "This year is WORSE than 2004!!!", etc., etc., etc... The EXACT same stream of comments.

I stated unequivocally last year to DON'T panic, it will get better.

And I am saying the same right now. Don't panic. 

The team sucks. We're under duress... so lets lash out and burn everything to the ground...

Not.

Players will get back from injuries. Hinch delivered his tongue lashing and I predict that starting tomorrow (or maybe later, we'll see with this team...) the team starts playing/ hitting better.

All the angst over drafting RHP's, while historically correct, does not guarantee future repeat results.

Greene and Tork will play much, much better. If not this year, then next. Baez will play much, much better, if not this year, then next.

Not to be the steady, reliable emotional touchstone here but (and Lee is correct, I'm not exactly the best guy to do that...), for right now, as much as everyone will absolutely hate this: I believe it's best to stay the course and ride this shit storm out.

The sun always comes back out to shine, even after a Cat 5 hurricane.

That’s fine.  But I don’t think firing Avila is a panic move.

[1984Echoes]

59 minutes ago, chasfh said:

... I think Ilitch was mad because he let Dombrowski talk him into liquidating David Price, Joakim Soria and Yoenis Cespedes at the deadline in a show of waving the white flag (reminder: we were 50-53 and in third place 11½ games out on July 31), in prep for a rebuild, or at least a retooling. Ilitch desperately wanted a ring before he died, though, and didn't want to go through yet another re-anything. Four days later, Dombrowski was gone...

You guys don't remember why DD was axed?

He openly/ publicly flirted with the Boston Red Sox over their open GM job. Ilitch fired DD BEFORE the Price/ Soria/ Cespedes trades (everyone wondered why he was handling deadline trades when Ilitch had already demanded his resignation). Mike was PISSED with DD's disloyalty to the Tigers... that he had the audacity to publicly flirt with the Red Sox while still Detroit's GM. I think he was given "two weeks notice", which covered the trade deadline, or something along those lines. He was officially released by the Tigers on August 4th, 2015.

He was hired by the Boston Red Sox to be their new GM on August 18th, 2015.

[1984Echoes]

6 minutes ago, casimir said:

That’s fine.  But I don’t think firing Avila is a panic move.

Right now, at this point in time, it is.

[Hongbit]

29 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I suspect the rest of the league will take a more holistic view of his record. Accounting for whole record plus how things ended in Houston.

 

31 minutes ago, casimir said:

Was it Hinch?  Was it the roster?  Was it the trash cans?

 

22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

But they are still good even without him.  

I’m just answering what has the guy done that is so appealing.  His record in Houston was impressive and everyday that passes is another day that the cheating scandal becomes less important.    The record after he left could also be viewed as a remnant of what he built and a positive for him instead of a negative.     End of the day though I think all managers are overrated.    Easiest leadership job in pro sports.   

Edited June 16, 2022 by Hongbit

[gehringer_2]

44 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I also think that.  He is certainly smart, but I think his failure to stop the players from cheating when he was against it is a negative mark on his record.  It doesn't mean he can't learn from his mistakes, but I could see where teams might be a little hesitant about him.  

Unless he does it soon, the failure to pull the Tigers out of this swoon will also weight heavily against him with owners like Moreno who think that is exactly what a manager must be able to do.