2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[casimir]

4 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't know what Meadows future is.   

I’ll guess an around 120 OPS+ with splits favoring hitting high in the lineup vs RHPs and low in the lineup (or sitting if the bench permits) vs LHPs.  Try to live with his glove in 2023 and DH him in 2024.  Free agent after that.

[1776]

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing….

Avila made four considerable moves for this years current major league ream roster. 

ERod is MIA and who knows when and where that ends up.

Meadows has, in his own way, been MIA with every possible injury/issue possible to date. 

Barnes is pretty much as advertised. Most starters appear to like the way he calls games. It makes sense that Avila was looking for an experienced defensive catcher for all the younger guys coming up. Unfortunately, most of the younger guys in the rotation have different names than what was expected.

Regarding Baez, I’ll defer on his signing just yet. 

….thinking out loud…..
 

 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I’ll guess an around 120 OPS+ with splits favoring hitting high in the lineup vs RHPs and low in the lineup (or sitting if the bench permits) vs LHPs.  Try to live with his glove in 2023 and DH him in 2024.  Free agent after that.

120 OPS+ sounds ambitious. We might have to be ready to see 100, maybe 110.

[chasfh]

Looks potentially like another good one who got away.

 

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

120 OPS+ sounds ambitious. We might have to be ready to see 100, maybe 110.

His lifetime wRC+ is 120.  He has a wRC+ of 100 this year with zero home runs  His Zips projection for the rest of the season is 132.   This is pretty high, but other projection systems have him around 120.  There is no ZIPS projection for 23, 24 but his OPS projection suggests about 120 OPS+or more.  I don't think 120 sounds ambitious if he is healthy.  

[casimir]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

120 OPS+ sounds ambitious. We might have to be ready to see 100, maybe 110.

 

52 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

His lifetime wRC+ is 120.  He has a wRC+ of 100 this year with zero home runs  His Zips projection for the rest of the season is 132.   This is pretty high, but other projection systems have him around 120.  There is no ZIPS projection for 23, 24 but his OPS projection suggests about 120 OPS+or more.  I don't think 120 sounds ambitious if he is healthy.  

I was looking at his past numbers and came up with the 120.  I am throwing out this season to date because there’s just nothing to gain from it.  Throw in the fact that he should be around his prime hitting seasons, and I think 120 is reasonable from a few minute glance at baseball reference.

The caveat to that, though, is a change to something like batting approach or the baseball itself.  A majority of the team is below career averages/expectations, so there is some question there.  And the baseball, well, MLB and it’s shenanigans, so there is some question there.

[1984Echoes]

11 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

If Cabrera stays healthy and finishes the season with a good BA but lousy OPS, he will come to Spring training ready to play. If the Tigs don’t think they are going to win anything that will be fine because he’ll be good marketing passing people on the all time lists. If they do think the DH bat could make or break a playoff run, they would have to decide to cut him and then pay him to play for someone else.  Possible, but seems unlikely

I think this is likely.

Not unlikely.

6 hours ago, Hart said:

I would say we are better off with Meadows at DH, assuming he bounces back to something closer to his career averages.   I suppose a platoon with Cabrera would be the easy answer.    

Even better. A team with TWO DH's!!!

[1776]

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

Even better. A team with TWO DH's!!!

Rob Manfred would absolutely love this idea.

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

His lifetime wRC+ is 120.  He has a wRC+ of 100 this year with zero home runs  His Zips projection for the rest of the season is 132.   This is pretty high, but other projection systems have him around 120.  There is no ZIPS projection for 23, 24 but his OPS projection suggests about 120 OPS+or more.  I don't think 120 sounds ambitious if he is healthy.  

I understand what the projections say. Meadows has put up 108 OPS+ over his last 900 or so plate trips over the past 2-1/2 years, and he has gotten over 120 OPS+ only once in his five seasons. I also believe the "healthy" part may be the key: he's coming off a bunch of owies on top of equilibrial weirdness, so I would not be necessarily disappointed if he came back for 200 or so plate trips and still ended up ±5 points around 100 OPS+. It's been a rough year for the guy.

He's our guy, and we got him for two more years after this, so I would be thrilled to be wrong and see him light it up when he comes back.

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I understand what the projections say. Meadows has put up 108 OPS+ over his last 900 or so plate trips over the past 2-1/2 years, and he has gotten over 120 OPS+ only once in his five seasons. I also believe the "healthy" part may be the key: he's coming off a bunch of owies on top of equilibrial weirdness, so I would not be necessarily disappointed if he came back for 200 or so plate trips and still ended up ±5 points around 100 OPS+. It's been a rough year for the guy.

He's our guy, and we got him for two more years after this, so I would be thrilled to be wrong and see him light it up when he comes back.

2020 stats don't mean much to me and he has had everything wrong physically in 2022.  2019 and 2021 are the best markers for what he can do and If he can go mid way between those two years, it would be great.  I wouldn't call a 120 OPS+ ambitious, but I undertsand that his health is a concern.

[gehringer_2]

Still don't understand how Scott Coolbaugh can still be employed by the Tigers. This year is making Lendary Lloyd look like Charlie Lau in retrospect.

[casimir]

Gregory Soto is the non legend all star for the Tigers.  I would suggest Andrew Chafin and Joe Jimenez have had better seasons than Soto.  Heck, Michael Fulmer and Alex Lange are arguably better numerically than Soto.

Edited July 11, 2022 by casimir

[casimir]

11 hours ago, chasfh said:

I understand what the projections say. Meadows has put up 108 OPS+ over his last 900 or so plate trips over the past 2-1/2 years, and he has gotten over 120 OPS+ only once in his five seasons. I also believe the "healthy" part may be the key: he's coming off a bunch of owies on top of equilibrial weirdness, so I would not be necessarily disappointed if he came back for 200 or so plate trips and still ended up ±5 points around 100 OPS+. It's been a rough year for the guy.

He's our guy, and we got him for two more years after this, so I would be thrilled to be wrong and see him light it up when he comes back.

There may be some rust to work off when he gets back, but he’s a 122 OPS+ over his career to date.  This includes that shortened 2020 and powerless 2022.  He’s only 27 years old.  If his resume isn’t a fluke, if he can return back to health, 120 to finish up the final two seasons of control should be the minimum expectation.

Edited July 11, 2022 by casimir

[HeyAbbott]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Still don't understand how Scott Coolbaugh can still be employed by the Tigers. This year is making Lendary Lloyd look like Charlie Lau in retrospect.

He is not very effective.

[HeyAbbott]

I thought about putting this in a separate topic, but seeing the ERod fiasco unfold, I was thinking about how I felt about the FA signings and trades by Detroit this year.

 E Rod-- A total bust. He will never pitch again for Detroit in my opinion.

Barnhart-- He was and is a placeholder until something better comes along. He hits like a typical 30 something catcher and the defense is reasonable. I had low expectations for him offensively speaking, so he is roughly what I expected.

Chafin-- IMO, he was the best FA sign by the Tigers. He has performed as advertised.

Pineda- A large sized disappointment.

Javy-- I think over the long run he will do fine. Defense has been great, hitting I think will have regressed to his norm by the end of the year.

Meadows-- Unbelievable bad luck, but may be fine next year.

Putting the best spin on things, except for Chafin, I think the FA signings were largely a bust.

Edited July 11, 2022 by HeyAbbott
spelling

[Tenacious D]

9 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

I thought about putting this in a separate topic, but seeing the ERod fiasco unfold, I was thinking about how I felt about the FA signings and trades by Detroit this year.

 E Rod-- A total bust. He will never pitch again for Detroit in my opinion.

Barnhart-- He was and is a placeholder until something better comes along. He hits like a typical 30 something catcher and the defense is reasonable. I had low expectations for him offensively speaking, so he is roughly what I expected.

Chafin-- IMO, he was the best FA sign by the Tigers. He has performed as advertised.

Pineda- A large sized disappointment.

Javy-- I think over the long run he will do fine. Defense has been great, hitting I think will have regressed to his norm by the end of the year.

Meadows-- Unbelievable bad luck, but may be fine next year.

Putting the best spin on things, except for Chafin, I think the FA signings were largely a bust.

Barnhart is a bust.  6 extra base hits and a sub .300 SLG?  His defense isn’t good enough to make up for that—I’d rather have Garneau up right now.

I also have to take issue with Baez’ defense—he has the athleticism to play SS, but his arm sucks.  Torkelson has bailed him out numerous times this year by digging crappy throws out of the dirt.  The sooner we can find a SS to move him to 2B, the better.

Also, I think Pineda has pitched the way I expected.  His only issue was his injury. He was signed a a 5th starter. 

[bobrob2004]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

Gregory Soto is the non legend all star for the Tigers.  I would suggest Andrew Chafin and Joe Jimenez have had better seasons than Soto.  Heck, Michael Fulmer and Alex Lange are arguably better numerically than Soto.

17 saves. Even in this day and age, the save stat is still looked at as very valuable.

 

My personal belief is that they are keeping him as closer to get him as many saves as possible so that they can get a high return at the deadline. Although Avila will be the one making the deal.  

[Tigeraholic1]

 

 

[kdog]

Count Meadows out for multiple weeks. It's Baddoo time.

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

 

I don't have any hope left for Meadows, so this does not disappoint me.

As far as I'm concerned, at this point, anything we get from him again, whether it's this year, next year, or 2024, I will consider a bonus.

I don't know whether something else is going on, but really, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is.

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I don't have any hope left for Meadows, so this does not disappoint me.

As far as I'm concerned, at this point, anything we get from him again, whether it's this year, next year, or 2024, I will consider a bonus.

I don't know whether something else is going on, but really, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there is.

I would certainly temper expectations for this year, but I think it's a bit rough to suggest he can't return to what he has been in the past.  I don't hold injuries against a player's performance--I think a reset for next season is what's best.  I'd count on him to be a contributor in 2023-24, while still under contract.

Looking ahead to 2023, I'd count on the following position players only:  1B Torkelson, 2B Baez (has to move off SS), CF Greene and RF Meadows.  None of these guys have warranted this status, but will be given it, based on their prospect pedigree or contract situation. Question marks, including C Jake Rogers, UT Jonathan Schoop and Eric Haase, OF Akil Baddoo, Daz Cameron and Derek Hill might be in play.  Miggy, given his contract situation, will be in some capacity.  Everyone else is either suspect (Candelario, the Castro brothers, Barnhart, Reyes) or too young to be counted on (Keith, Pacheco, Wenceel Perez).

Kind of bleak considering that our owner has deemed the rebuild over.  

[chasfh]

32 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I would certainly temper expectations for this year, but I think it's a bit rough to suggest he can't return to what he has been in the past.  I don't hold injuries against a player's performance--I think a reset for next season is what's best.  I'd count on him to be a contributor in 2023-24, while still under contract.

Sure, he could return to what’s he has been in the past. But nothing has been normal for him in this already very abnormal year, so I’m just not penciling him in for anything. I’ll think about him when he’s actually back with the team. I’m with you on tempering hopes for him this year even if he does come back. I’d be thrilled if he merely came back and didn’t miss any more time injured again.

Edited July 11, 2022 by chasfh

[chasfh]

BREAKING: stop and start over

 

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

BREAKING: stop and start over

 

He's starting to sound like a possible long COVID case.....

[oblong]

Tell me you are a bad team without telling me you are a bad team:

a reliever is your only all star