Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, Biff Mayhem said:

The hindsight that at the time it was touted as the be all end all of COVID. Plenty of talking heads and political leaders said this would kill it in its place. We know now that is simply not true. 

If that's what you  think it was supposed to be, you either didn't listen or listened to the wrong voices. A vaccine is a tool, not a be all or end all, and as far as vaccines though out history go, the Covid vaccines worked damn well. You couldn't even make an intelligent guess at how many people early in the pandemic - when the strains were most virulent, did NOT get infected because someone they came into contact with had gotten the shot. 

It's the height of some kind of anti-intellectual hubris to look back after the fact at a pretty substantial scientific feat of prevention and blow it off exactly because it worked. 

But as Rod might say: carry on with your bad self. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

How many deaths were in the US?

Over a million? I don't even know how many there were from around the world since we're not getting those #'s from China or Russia.

It was a pandemic and there's a vaccine against it so I'm taking it.

Any other answer is asinine.... The next plague will be the Bubonic Plague and we'll, what, be asked to look at the Bubonic vaccine in hindsight and wonder whether it should have been taken or not? Can we interview all the dead who didn't take the vaccine and wish they had? In both cases?

Could be some interesting answers there...

[casimir]

Whatever happened to measles, mumps, rubella, polio, small pox, chicken pox, etc, etc?  Thank goodness we didn’t have Twitter doctors then.

[gehringer_2]

49 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

How many deaths were in the US?

Over a million?

and if Doctors are to be believed, most them were unvaccinated. I suppose the entire US medical establishment could be conspiring to lie to us.....or not.

[gehringer_2]

I will certainly grant Biff's point that if you were young and healthy with good lung function and no co-morbidities, COVID was very, even very very unlikely to kill you. This was the case from the beginning.  But again, that misses the concept of trying to keep yourself well so that the people around you who are at risk are thereby protected. In a society with no sense of social cohesion or sense of responsibility to one's neighbor's, that's how you play. If that is the society you want.

Also granted that by the time Omicron got here, the infectiousness of that strain was so high that even a good vaccine couldn't prevent spread, but that's an after the fact argument - the vaccine did limit spread before Omicron, which was generally less severe, and which arose after most fatalties had occurred.

Edited December 11, 2022 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

... if you were young and healthy with good lung function and no co-morbidities, COVID was very, even very very unlikely to kill you. This was the case from the beginning.  But again, that misses the concept of trying to keep yourself well so that the people around you who are at risk ...

This was not 100%

Very unlikely, yes, but there were deaths, and there were those that suffered long-term damage or "extended Covid" (I forget the actual term they were using) who were young and healthy with no co-morbidities. Athletes were felled low by Covid, as well as there were deaths amongst those that were unexpected.

[oblong]

Hospital figures provide the answer as to whether people should have gotten the vaccine. Before they were widely distributed the ICU’s were full of covid patients. Now they are not.  Barely a blip on the radar.  The impact on our hospitals is the single data point you need.  It answers the questions.  It’s night and day better today than 2 years ago. By a mile.  
 

remember it wasn’t just COVID patients dying because of over crowding and it’s not just COVID deaths being prevented that matter. It was stroke and heart attack patients that couldn’t get the kind of care dying that made it worse.  Today they get the treatment they need. 
 

it’s at the point now where it’s very rare my wife has a patient in the icu because of covid. 

[Edman85]

I've had 5 shots, had covid after the 4th one. It was pretty mild, despite a potentially devastating underlying condition. The vaccine played a role in that (It also, somewhat ironically played a role in me getting it. My brother's symptoms were so mild, likely due to the vaccine, that we had no clue he may be positive when I visted him.) The parenthetical paradox aside, the vaccine helped everybody get back to normalish, and for that it has been invaluable. Those of us with consciouses who stayed home as best as we could needed those shots for some degree of sanity.

Yes, I would get the vaccine again, and hindsight only reinforces it. I'll get every booster I'm eligible for ASAP. My doctor agrees. My epidemiologist cousin agrees. If some right wing talking heads don't, well their word is meaningless in this debate.

[Edman85]

The vaccine would have been closer to a be all end all if a bunch of charlatans didn't brainwash a chunk of society into not getting it and letting some unnecessary mutations happen, just so they could sell their snake oil supplements touting immune support.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Edman85

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The vaccine would have been closer to a be all end all if a bunch of charlatans didn't brainwash a chunk of society into not getting it and letting some unnecessary mutations happen, just so they could sell their snake oil supplements touting immune support.

also a very good point.

Though I am old enough to be at higher risk, my health and pulmonary fitness is such I probably was not. I also did the full routine of the 1st 4, then got COVID anyway (hanging around college students will do that....), but also very mild, so am also giving it 3-4 months before I go for the currently available booster.

[Edman85]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

also a very good point.

Though I am old enough to be at higher risk, my health and pulmonary fitness is such I probably was not. I also did the full routine of the 1st 4, then got COVID anyway (hanging around college students will do that....), but also very mild, so am also giving it 3-4 months before I go for the currently available booster.

 

I asked my doctor about two months after my infection, and he said I was good to go for the bivalent booster. I wanted to get my booster because Thanksgiving was going to be spent among several relatives that were high risk and I was going to be flying in.

[pfife]

I would get the vaccines again.  I've had covid twice.    I've been waiting for the 3 months since I last had it to get the new vax, it's prolly about time now

 

[Tiger337]

On 12/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, Biff Mayhem said:

The hindsight that at the time it was touted as the be all end all of COVID. Plenty of talking heads and political leaders said this would kill it in its place. We know now that is simply not true. 
 

I’m in the camp that says I wouldn’t have gotten it had I known now of how limited it is. I would fully advice the elderly (Sue) 😄 to continue getting it but for myself with very little in the way of risk factors, I’d pass and will pass again going forward. 
 

If I die an ironic death, you are more than welcome to laugh about it. 😎

I am not a high risk person and do not regret getting the vaccine. I am getting both the flu and second Covid booster tomorrow

Some people heard the word "vaccine" and they assumed that they would be immune to Covid if they got it.  That is understandable.  However, no responsible person in the science or medical community touted it as such.  It was always a vaccine that would make it less likely that people would get ill enough to be hospitalized if they got Covid.  That is good for me, but it's also good for the world at large because it keeps the hospitals from getting filled up.   

I also am not in favor of Covid vaccine mandates.  I am in favor of better education and less misinformation about the vaccine.  I am not sure how that is achieved. 

 

[Edman85]

7 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I am not a high risk person and do not regret getting the vaccine. I am getting both the flu and second Covid booster tomorrow

Some people heard the word "vaccine" and they assumed that they would be immune to Covid if they got it.  That is understandable.  However, no responsible person in the science or medical community touted it as such.  It was always a vaccine that would make it less likely that people would get ill enough to be hospitalized if they got Covid.  That is good for me, but it's also good for the world at large because it keeps the hospitals from getting filled up.   

I also am not in favor of Covid vaccine mandates.  I am in favor of better education and less misinformation about the vaccine.  I am not sure how that is achieved. 

 

 

Mandates were an unfortunately necessary means to an end. I talked to one MAGA colleague who said Biden's civil service mandate was what got him to get the jab. N=1, but I'm sure the mandates helped convince many to do it.

I've mentioned my cousin before, but her specialty is vaccine communication (she's probably not a fan of my bombastic nature of going about this, fwiw). Anyways, she was interviewed in NYT and Wapo late 2020 and was sounding the alarm here that there wasn't enough being done to combat misinformation. The mere fact that this topic is doctoral level at an Ivy shows how difficult the problem is.

[mtutiger]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:31 AM, Biff Mayhem said:

Purely out of curiosity and not to start a war but I am wondering how many people, with the benefit of hindsight, would have still gotten the vaccine. 

Yes, I would have. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

On 12/10/2022 at 6:35 PM, gehringer_2 said:

I will certainly grant Biff's point that if you were young and healthy with good lung function and no co-morbidities, COVID was very, even very very unlikely to kill you. This was the case from the beginning.  But again, that misses the concept of trying to keep yourself well so that the people around you who are at risk are thereby protected. In a society with no sense of social cohesion or sense of responsibility to one's neighbor's, that's how you play. If that is the society you want.

Even beyond COVID vaccines, I used to frequently skip the flu shot (not out of skepticism, but usually out of laziness)... the pandemic kinda shined some light onto how selfish that decision was by framing it as how it isn't all about me and it's also about doing what is necessary to help keep elderly/compromised family members safe. Just had never thought about it in that way before.

I do not see the downside to doing it even if you are healthy or young or unlikely to succumb to it, the numbers suggest that it has worked in the macro, so I will continue to get boosted.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Even beyond COVID vaccines, I used to frequently skip the flu shot (not out of skepticism, but usually out of laziness)... the pandemic kinda shined some light onto how selfish that decision was by framing it as how it isn't all about me and it's also about doing what is necessary to help keep elderly/compromised family members safe. Just had never thought about it in that way before.

I do not see the downside to doing it even if you are healthy or young or unlikely to succumb to it, the numbers suggest that it has worked in the macro, so I will continue to get boosted.

Somewhat the same with you about flu shots, although that definitely changed with kids.

The adage about, "well, if I die, I die".  Yeah, that's great selfishness for those with dependent children.

[ewsieg]

I wish my wife didn't get the vaccine, or I should say the booster.  She's one of very few documented cases where she still has issues (about a year now).  That said, she had many doctors state her issues weren't as rare as we thought, simply the odd thing with her was how long it has persisted.  

I still would have gotten it, along with my kids.  I always understood it didn't mean I'd never get Covid, but i'd be better protected and likely have less severe symptoms and duration.  Maybe I'm wrong at some level, but it just seems like common sense that by itself would decrease infections as a whole.  I know there have been follow up studies, which honestly might be outdated for our current variants, that showed the same amount of virulence for people with Covid with or without the vaccine.  But if i'm coughing/sneezing/wheezing less than I would have otherwise, I'm limiting it's ability to get airborne.

[Tigeraholic1]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, Biff Mayhem said:

Purely out of curiosity and not to start a war but I am wondering how many people, with the benefit of hindsight, would have still gotten the vaccine. 

I would still have gotten the jab. I won't get any boosters, my doctor did not recommend it at this point. I am/was totally against mandate. There are alot of folks in here who were blue in the face screaming for a mandate. 

[Edman85]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Even beyond COVID vaccines, I used to frequently skip the flu shot (not out of skepticism, but usually out of laziness)... the pandemic kinda shined some light onto how selfish that decision was by framing it as how it isn't all about me and it's also about doing what is necessary to help keep elderly/compromised family members safe. Just had never thought about it in that way before.

I do not see the downside to doing it even if you are healthy or young or unlikely to succumb to it, the numbers suggest that it has worked in the macro, so I will continue to get boosted.

It was actually 2019 when I got my first flu shot. After a conversation with said cousin at a family gathering. My sister-in-law was very pregnant and she recommended a flu shot before seeing my nephew. For me and my parents, I think that was the first year we did it.

[oblong]

I never went out of my way to get my flu shot but when I went in for my physical in august I would get it if they had it. After talking with a pediatrician friend in 2018 I realized how bad it could be for kids so I made a point to get it. 
 

I’ll get a COVID booster every chance I get. I never qualified for the 4th but my doctor offered it in august, but the bivalent was coming out soon so I got that. 

[CMRivdogs]

I've done the whole menu, COVID, Flu, Shingles....

But then I'm 70 from a family with a history of heart disease, diabetes, etc. The fact that I'm being treated for a "life defining" lung disease (diagnosed in 2021), I make it a point to get the shots.

[Tigeraholic1]

6 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

I've done the whole menu, COVID, Flu, Shingles....

But then I'm 70 from a family with a history of heart disease, diabetes, etc. The fact that I'm being treated for a "life defining" lung disease (diagnosed in 2021), I make it a point to get the shots.

My Dad is 75, he has gotten his Shingles shot as he was supposed to. 8 months ago he got shingles. Mostly on his head, can’t seem to shake it. He has had what they can give you for shingles three or four times but they won’t go away. I wouldn’t wish them on my worst enemy.

[Tiger337]

8 hours ago, Edman85 said:

It was actually 2019 when I got my first flu shot. After a conversation with said cousin at a family gathering. My sister-in-law was very pregnant and she recommended a flu shot before seeing my nephew. For me and my parents, I think that was the first year we did it.

I started getting the flu shot regularly 7 years ago when I started teaching again.  I do think it helps.  

[Deleterious]

I started getting a flu shot a few years ago.  It was 100% based on science.

Girlfriend said, "Hey, you need to start getting a flu shot."  Years of research and experiments have made me come to the conclusion that doing what she says equals a happier life for me.