Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

If that is the only point you are trying to make that is a fair enough point. OTOH, there is large space between 'debunked conspiracy theories" and scenarios that are unlikely enough that they should not be dominating our thinking on a given topic - which - until the evidence changes,  is where I would put the lab leak hypothesis.

I'd caution against statements like 'unlikely enough'.  Remember, the same people you are using to support that it's 'unlikely' now and that we should wait for evidence, were the same "Lancet" ones, without much evidence, claiming early on in the pandemic that it definitely wasn't man-made.

 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[mtutiger]

Looks like TB is about to get canceled for expressing his opinion lol

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Looks like TB is about to get canceled for expressing his opinion lol

Terry is old enough now he probably doesn't give a damn. That is the one liberating thing about getting old.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

I'd caution against statements like 'unlikely enough'.  Remember, the same people you are using to support that it's 'unlikely' now and that we should wait for evidence, were the same "Lancet" ones, without much evidence, claiming early on in the pandemic that it definitely wasn't man-made.

 

The Chinese are going to run out the clock and we may never know a whole lot more. But '84 is also correct that where it came from doesn't really change anything about where we are now. Two things can both be true - that as genetic techniques get better the research establishment needs effective safeguards, and that the world and our national public health infrastructure needs to be ready for the next one that nature almost certainly will throw at us soon enough. So both possible origins of this bug should be informing policy regardless of which is true.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Looks like TB is about to get canceled for expressing his opinion lol

The NFL has to suspend Rodgers for openly flouting the rules, right?  This gives the league a little more time to kick the Daniel Snyder can further down the road, too, right?

[ewsieg]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The Chinese are going to run out the clock and we may never know a whole lot more. But '84 is also correct that where it came from doesn't really change anything about where we are now. Two things can both be true - that as genetic techniques get better the research establishment needs effective safeguards, and that the world and our national public health infrastructure needs to be ready for the next one that nature almost certainly will throw at us soon enough. So both possible origins of this bug should be informing policy regardless of which is true.

Overall correct, one point on knowing where it came from as being important, even if the investigation never proves it one way or the other....

China is stonewalling.  Those that believe in the lab leak theory will point to that as proof.  Those that don't believe in the lab leak theory, will also point to that as proof.  Regardless though, putting pressure on China giving us answers is confirming just how much they are stonewalling.  Personally, I don't care if new procedures/infrastructure, safeguards, are put in place, if the NIH/US or any other country chooses to put money into a Chinese lab going ahead, they need to recognize that all of that means nothing.  Putting a focus on that should help persuade others from assisting a government that has no interests in getting the truth.  

Edited November 8, 2021 by ewsieg

[buddha]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The Chinese are going to run out the clock and we may never know a whole lot more. But '84 is also correct that where it came from doesn't really change anything about where we are now. Two things can both be true - that as genetic techniques get better the research establishment needs effective safeguards, and that the world and our national public health infrastructure needs to be ready for the next one that nature almost certainly will throw at us soon enough. So both possible origins of this bug should be informing policy regardless of which is true.

you are certainly right about the chinese obfuscating and running out the clock.

that said, its a shame the focus is not on finding out the truth and is instead on the politics of who is advocating what theory.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

Overall correct, one point on knowing where it came from as being important, even if the investigation never proves it one way or the other....

China is stonewalling.  Those that believe in the lab leak theory will point to that as proof.  Those that don't believe in the lab leak theory, will also point to that as proof.  Regardless though, putting pressure on China giving us answers is confirming just how much they are stonewalling.  Personally, I don't care if new procedures/infrastructure, safeguards, are put in place, if the NIH/US or any other country chooses to put money into a Chinese lab going ahead, they need to recognize that all of that means nothing.  Putting a focus on that should help persuade others from assisting a government that has no interests in getting the truth.  

the one thing to realize though is that a little bit like trans-national business, science has also become pretty transnational. The scientific community sees all their host governments a piggy banks but also as nuisances at best. They generally have more loyalty to their work than their government - and I would say that is probably true both in China and in the US. No matter where in the world they work all these folks went to many of the same schools, attend the same conferences, work jointly on all kinds of projects inside the same world research culture and publish world wide to the same standards. I think this is generally a good thing. There are researchers in Wuhan right now who have the screws being put them by Beijing and are not liking it either. We should remember they are not our enemy.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

you are certainly right about the chinese obfuscating and running out the clock.

that said, its a shame the focus is not on finding out the truth and is instead on the politics of who is advocating what theory.

Nature abhors a vacuum. When nothing can be done about the one, the space gets filled by the other.

[mtutiger]

 

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

the one thing to realize though is that a little bit like trans-national business, science has also become pretty transnational. The scientific community sees all their host governments a piggy banks but also as nuisances at best. They generally have more loyalty to their work than their government - and I would say that is probably true both in China and in the US. No matter where in the world they work all these folks went to many of the same schools, attend the same conferences, work jointly on all kinds of projects inside the same world research culture and publish world wide to the same standards. I think this is generally a good thing. There are researchers in Wuhan right now who have the screws being put them by Beijing and are not liking it either. We should remember they are not our enemy.

I completely agree.  But if you refuse to play by the rules, or claim that you will but balk when you're put to the test, well, you're out.  What we do know now is this Wuhan lab wasn't playing by the rules.  Was it Shi/Fauci./NHI... right now it would be irresponsible to blame them.  Was it Daszak that should be blamed?  Again, not sure, no clear cut evidence, but there is some evidence against him that raises eyebrows.  WHO to blame?  Again, the ties with Daszak are the same things that put eyes on him and therefore put eyes on them.   

 

[Hongbit]

Updated Foolish Belief Ranking:

1) Tooth Fairy

2) Wuhan Lab Leak

3) Dem Leadership are Secret Lizard People

4) Bill Gates Vaccine Trackers

5) Leprechauns 

Also Receiving Votes: Santa Claus, Tin Foil Hats Really Do Work,  Anything Epstein

Edited November 8, 2021 by Hongbit

[ewsieg]

Do you actually believe this Hongbit, or are you just trolling?

[Motown Bombers]

CEO of my company is now encouraging employees to vote out politicians who enact vaccine mandates. This is the same company that is completely woke and celebrating Diwali and encourages pronouns in their email signatures. I knew it was all an act. 

[Hongbit]

37 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Do you actually believe this Hongbit, or are you just trolling?

I don’t know.  I’m kind of torn on Leprechauns 

[Motown Bombers]

My CEO is quoting Salman Rushdie while talking about freedom against vaccine mandates. This is the same company than bans cigarettes and marijuana, both legal in Michigan. 

[ewsieg]

23 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t know.  I’m kind of torn on Leprechauns 

Safe to assume you're 100% in on Russian Collusion?

[Hongbit]

20 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

My CEO is quoting Salman Rushdie while talking about freedom against vaccine mandates. This is the same company than bans cigarettes and marijuana, both legal in Michigan. 

There’s never been a better time to look for a new job.

[Hongbit]

19 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Safe to assume you're 100% in on Russian Collusion?

Well, there is a theory out there that Putin is obsessed with Leprechauns and has spent tens of millions on secret KGB projects to try to capture one and learn its magic powers.  

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

There’s never been a better time to look for a new job.

I just sent a strongly worded email to my CEO. I may be looking for one sooner rather than later. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😄😄😄

[Motown Bombers]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

Well, there is a theory out there that Putin is obsessed with Leprechauns and has spent tens of millions on secret KGB projects to try to capture one and learn its magic powers.  

Apparently there is a video of a Leprechaun peeing on Trump's head. 

[Motown Bombers]

I updated the pronouns on my work email signature to vaccinated pro-mandate. 

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

19 hours ago, casimir said:

The NFL has to suspend Rodgers for openly flouting the rules, right?  

Well the NFL is in a bit of a tricky spot, because Rodgers didn't actually hide anything from the team or the NFL. Both the team and the NFL in general simply turned a blind eye to Rodgers flouting the rules. If they try to hold Rodgers and/or Packers accountable, what is the NFL's punishment for ignoring the violations all this time?

To me, it almost has to be a "now-now, don't do that again or you will get in trouble" situation, otherwise they have to try to spin their own involvement in ignoring the behavior.