Tiger337 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ewsieg said: This is exactly my point. They got exactly what they wanted by manipulating the media. As I provided above, that Lancet article was put out to push this as a natural origin even as most involved seemed to think the Lab leak theory was viable and even a few thinking it was likely. For those that are now saying 'show me where Fauci said the lab leak theory was not an option', you damn well know how he spoke and what was pushed to the media. If you said lab leak, you were the reason why St. Patty's day isn't celebrated in China. He speaks like a scientist, very cautiously with no absolutes. If somebody on the left or right took that and put it into their own context that is their fault. Edited February 28, 2023 by Tiger337 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I'm not sure who wanted what. There is no motive for numbers of independent academics and docs around the country to have a particular agenda on this. There just isn't. Dude, you're joking right? The emails from many of those independent academics specifically talk about the importance to push natural origin. from above: Quote Among other things, he explained that a “natural origin of the furin site is certainly not impossible.” He also warned his colleagues that further debate about the “accusation” that SARS-CoV-2 may have been engineered and released into the environment by humans “would unnecessarily distract top researchers from their active duties and do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Is there a more red herring than the origin of this thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Dude, you're joking right? The emails from many of those independent academics specifically talk about the importance to push natural origin. from above: LOL - talk about straw man. Read your own quote a little more carefully. You are quoting someone talking about the irresponsibility of propagating a totally outlandish claim, that of deliberate agency in the preparation and release. And he is completely correct. There is a huge difference between an accidental release by sloppy researchers and "engineered and released". The later being the seeds of a international political firestorm - basically an accusation of intentional Chinese biological warfare. Edited February 28, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: LOL - talk about straw man. Read your own quote a little more carefully. You are quoting someone talking about the irresponsibility of propagating a totally outlandish claim, that of deliberate agency in the preparation and release. And he is completely correct. There is a huge difference between and accidental release by sloppy researchers and "engineered and released". The later being the seeds of a international political firestorm. Read the article, he's the major proponent of 'we need to say natural origin' and the only evidence he has is 'it's impossible to say it couldn't be natural' but goes on to say why it's important to say it's natural. I thought scientists don't give opinions and only speak to fact? He's not doing that here, he's arguing that if people think it's lab leak, which it might be, some people may than jump to it was engineered and released. As a scientist, that's not his role, it's to look at what he can obtain as fact and interpret it as best he can, all the while acknowledging that more facts may come in to change that. Doing that would have potentially put a lot of pressure on his field that he absolutely doesn't want though. So does that come into play why they pushed natural origin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: They got exactly what they wanted by manipulating the media. I dont have a dog in this fight, I've heard compelling reasons to believe it could be both human error or naturally occurring. Like with East Palestine, I'm gonna sit it out and wait for the facts to come out in order to make a judgment. Having said that, in terms of "wanting" within the context of this debate, nobody "wants" more than politically animated commentators who are vehemently in favor of the lab leak hypothesis as far as I can tell Edited February 28, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mtutiger said: wait for the facts to come out further facts seem unlikely - at least as long as Xi lives. Edited February 28, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: further facts seem unlikely - at least as long as Xi lives. That's a fair point, but really the point still stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: further facts seem unlikely - at least as long as Xi lives. It doesn't mean we don't have facts that aren't public, which could be the reason why these internal investigations are starting to lean towards lab leak. In the end, you're likely right that ultimately no one will ever truly know, at least anytime soon. Might be a generation or two later that are the first ones to get a lot of the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Read the article, g2, read the media, not what the scientist said. Even though the media is bad. except when e agrees with what the media is saying then the media is kick ass and it matters more than what the scientist himself said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Like with East Palestine, I'm gonna sit it out and wait for the facts to come out in order to make a judgment. My internal thought is deregulation helped cause this accident, or at the very least, made this type of situation more likely to occur. Additionally the right is the one that tends to push deregulation even though when it comes to railroads, they pretty much own both sides, thus why the Biden Admin / Buttigieg couldn't even get some sick days for employees because they are 'too important' to the economy for such silly things. That holds true for this little incident, hopefully media will move away as to ensure no one overreacts and puts undue pressure on an industry so vital to the economy. Externally, as someone that leans right on fiscal issues and doesn't want the right to be blamed because they are my team I'll put out this statement. "It's inconceivable to me that anyone would be looking to place blame when the real issue are the people of East Palestine. Instead we need to be focused to assist in this nightmare scenario they are living through and give them all the support they need. There will be a time to address other concerns, but now is not that time. Let's come together and support our brothers and sisters in East Palestine." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, ewsieg said: My internal thought is deregulation helped cause this accident, or at the very least, made this type of situation more likely to occur. Additionally the right is the one that tends to push deregulation even though when it comes to railroads, they pretty much own both sides, thus why the Biden Admin / Buttigieg couldn't even get some sick days for employees because they are 'too important' to the economy for such silly things. That holds true for this little incident, hopefully media will move away as to ensure no one overreacts and puts undue pressure on an industry so vital to the economy. The media doesn't need to move away, I'd just prefer they focus on the people on the ground, the facts on the ground (vis a vis statistics on occurrences of events of this nature and policy that can prevent it going forward) versus making everything about politics and personality. People are not educated about the incident or the issues when it becomes a finger pointing contest with half pointing at Pete Buttigieg and half pointing at Donald Trump. When neither really bear responsibility and the issues run far deeper. The same is the case here... the issue has been optimally politicized and I'm not sure how, let alone (like Ed wonders) why it even matters that much in the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, mtutiger said: That's a fair point, but really the point still stands. surely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, mtutiger said: The media doesn't need to move away, I'd just prefer they focus on the people on the ground, the facts on the ground (vis a vis statistics on occurrences of events of this nature and policy that can prevent it going forward) versus making everything about politics and personality. People are not educated about the incident or the issues when it becomes a finger pointing contest with half pointing at Pete Buttigieg and half pointing at Donald Trump. When neither really bear responsibility and the issues run far deeper. The same is the case here... the issue has been optimally politicized and I'm not sure how, let alone (like Ed wonders) why it even matters that much in the grand scheme of things. To clarify, I absolutely agree with you. My post was to jokingly point out that as I likely suspect the right has at minimum, some of the blame, I figured I'd spin the response to focus on the people and call out anyone that might want to place blame as not caring about the people affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 masks are awesome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 A mask is marginally effective at preventing spread of the virus. Add up a million marginals and you get a substantial effect. One problem all along has been that so many people are only concerned with whether a mask helps ME and can't seem to comprehend that it might help others. That being said, masks are a pain and I don't wear one any more unless I am told to do so which happens in doctors offices and sometimes at work (when I'm not remote). In those cases, I wear them without complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: A mask is marginally effective at preventing spread of the virus. Add up a million marginals and you get a substantial effect. One problem all along has been that so many people are only concerned with whether a mask helps ME and can't seem to comprehend that it might help others. That being said, masks are a pain and I don't wear one any more unless I am told to do so which happens in doctors offices and sometimes at work (when I'm not remote). In those cases, I wear them without complaint. I think it's that they don't care if it helps others. I like masks so I don't have to see 3 week unbrushed maga teeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, pfife said: I think it's that they don't care if it helps others. I think not caring and not comprehending go hand in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Statement from GOTUS as per today's WaPo The Biden administration on Monday emphasized the inclusive nature of the evidence so far. National Security Council coordinator for strategic communications John Kirby, speaking at a White House briefing, said the new intelligence assessment was part of an ongoing “whole of government” effort to investigate how covid-19 began, although he acknowledged that firm conclusions have remained elusive. “There is not a consensus right now in the U.S. government about exactly how covid started,” Kirby told reporters. “That work is still ongoing, but the president believes it’s really important that we continue that work and that we find out as best we can how it started so that we can better prevent a future pandemic.” Edited February 28, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: Statement from GOTUS as per today's WaPo The Biden administration on Monday emphasized the inclusive nature of the evidence so far. National Security Council coordinator for strategic communications John Kirby, speaking at a White House briefing, said the new intelligence assessment was part of an ongoing “whole of government” effort to investigate how covid-19 began, although he acknowledged that firm conclusions have remained elusive. “There is not a consensus right now in the U.S. government about exactly how covid started,” Kirby told reporters. “That work is still ongoing, but the president believes it’s really important that we continue that work and that we find out as best we can how it started so that we can better prevent a future pandemic.” I see zero wrong with this statement, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 56 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I see zero wrong with this statement, fwiw. "We now return control of your television set to you, until next week at this same time, when the Control Voice will take you to... The Outer Limits......" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 9 hours ago, pfife said: masks are awesome I have an egg head. Masks make my ears hurt because the strap tends to be pretty tights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) . Edited February 28, 2023 by Tigeraholic1 Wrong thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Edman85 said: I have an egg head. Masks make my ears hurt because the strap tends to be pretty tights. I only wore a tie-back (soft cloth 'strings') when I had to wear one all day. Cannot abide elastic around my head or behind my ears for more than about 1/2 hour. Got really good at tying knots behind my head. Edited February 28, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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